How Zimbabwe's gold-backed currency will work

Episode 219 April 13, 2024 00:48:26
How Zimbabwe's gold-backed currency will work
Techpoint Africa Podcast
How Zimbabwe's gold-backed currency will work

Apr 13 2024 | 00:48:26


Hosted By

Chimgozirim Nwokoma Oluwanifemi Kolawole Bolu Abiodun

Show Notes

On guest on today's podcast is Dr Olumide Okubadejo, Head of Product at Sabi and AI researcher. We discuss:
  • Africa's AI strategy
  • Zimbabwe's gold-backed currency
  • Jump n' Pass partnering Justrite 
Subscribe to The Modern Workplace/Equity Merchants/Techpoint Digest/ and  Intelpoint's newsletter/ 
00:00 - Intro
02:13 - Africa's AI strategy
22:51 - Zimbabwe's gold-backed currency
33:13 - Jump n' Pass partners Justrite 
Useful links
This episode was produced by Ogheneruemu Oneyibo
Email us your feedback at Visit for more stories.
Music - Beach by MBB -
Find us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @TechpointAfrica
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Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, guys. Welcome to the Techpoint Africa podcast. Your usual host, Nifemi, will not be joining us today. She's, how do I say it? She's on Sabbatica. She's dealing with other assignments. Right. I hope that is what, I hope that's the reason why she's not here. But she will update you next week. So. Yeah, welcome to the Deck Point Africa podcast. Today we have Shimgozeerim. You guys know Shimgozirim well, and we also have Inca. I'm sure you guys know those that are not frequent on the podcast may not know Inka, but Nika is the lead of our sister company. It is our sister company, intelligence by Techpoint. And we also have a very, very special guest with us. His name is Doctor Olumi, is the head of products at Sabi, and he's also an AI research scientist. So it will be helping us take a better look at some of the stories we'll be talking about today. Speaking of stories today, we'll be looking at the whole AI conversation from this week. I think that was about four days ago. If you're on Twitter, I'm sure you know, you've seen Delve, the word delve, jumping around everywhere. Yeah. So we'll be looking at the things that. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Delving into it. [00:01:32] Speaker A: Yeah, we are going to be delving into that conversation. We'll also be looking at Zimbabwe's plans to rescue their alien currency. Zimbabwe has been through a lot when it comes to currency evaluations. And then lastly, looking at a startup, remind yourself, lastly, you'll be looking at a startup that wants to make it easier for you to go to supermarket, buy what you want, pay and go without having to stay on the queue. Interestingly, it's drop and pass. All right, so let's get right into it. Yes. So Mister Paul Graham on Twitter told us that he would, I think he said he got an email from. From someone if it was nigerian. But he said he got an email from someone and the person used the word delft. Normally he does not like that word, but then he felt that person used their DPT to drive that email because of the word delft. And then my fellow Nigerians, right, saw that tweet and they were like, you know, and they were like, delve. Like, you mean delve? Delve is one big vocabulary like that. And, you know, the conversation started going from, oh, people who are non native english speakers use different kinds of words because of how they learnt English. Then there were a lot of arguments back and forth, stones were thrown people were eat. Actually. [00:03:19] Speaker C: No. They said people's rejection at white seas was what. [00:03:27] Speaker A: Because some people took it too far? [00:03:29] Speaker C: Yeah. Rejecting us? Yeah. [00:03:33] Speaker A: But I think one takeaway from everything that happened just goes to show that we probably need our own AI strategy. We need to play an active role in the development of AI. AI is one technology that is growing super, super fast. So Doctor Olumide is so great that we have you on the podcast today to help us shed some light some of these happenings. So in your own opinion, what would you say was the reason for all the back and forth? Some people say is because the AI was trained by people in third world countries. This, that. What would you say is the reason why people would think the world dev, right. Is written by AI? [00:04:22] Speaker D: So, yeah, I followed, I followed that conversation slightly. Okay, if we, I think that there are two ways to look at it. You know, you look at the world, the world itself, delve, and you're like, oh my God, this is by an AI, right? Somebody in the US, oh my God. We don't use that in regular speech. So whatever, this has to be generated by an AI. But here in Nigeria, it's a word that we use all the time. One of the things that I really got into, see, and I don't mean this in a very bad way, or I don't mean to throw shades or throw my own stones. I see that over time, over time, I've traveled all around and I have come to realize that most of us who have to do things like ielts or you want to study abroad, you know, engage in all these things, we have a wider vocabulary from a written perspective. A lot of times we are better writers. We use more words. We use a lot of words expansions, we try to use all of those words. I was a kid when I was using the word aggrandizement. So there's that. There is that, right? But then there's also a larger conversation of separating AI text from, from human tech or human generated text. So I'd side with both sides. So when I look at, when you see the word delve, then it has to speak a bit to your vocabulary, if your word delve is automatically reflector of it being written by an AI. But I can tell you for sure, and maybe Paul Graham didn't know, craft it. The way that he should have is, especially if you build these things or you are in the AI industry, you know, a text that is written by an AI and the one that is written by a regular person, like there's some difference. There's some differences in structure. There are certain things that you feel like a regular Joe wouldn't have the patience to craft. And then you see, see it crafted in a way like that. And the problem with that is. [00:06:57] Speaker A: And. [00:06:57] Speaker D: Especially from a VC perspective, VC's have also relied on the intuition of how you put together the words you use, how you put everything together as a reflector of a certain level of your intelligence. Now that is out because AI can now help you do something that is really good. Everybody is now on the same level. So they struggle. I think Paul is struggling with the fact that it is now difficult for him to say, oh, this is a beautiful deck with beautiful words, with beautiful ideas clearly written that says, oh, yeah, you articulate it, you can articulate it. Yeah, no, I mean, but he's struggling with that fact. And a lot of people, to be honest, I recently taught a class and, you know, people were supposed to write something and I really at some point couldn't tell the difference about those people who understood it and those who didn't understand it. And I had to rely on the people that, you know, were straight to just this chanting to generate implicitly as maybe they didn't really understand it. [00:08:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:09] Speaker D: So I get that. But when you say delve is the singular reflector, then there's an issue. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Interesting, interesting. Mika, do you use delve often? [00:08:19] Speaker C: No, actually. So, so surprisingly, that day I wasn't on Twitter at all. I was working. I just said it. And like, almost like the first set of 2000, everybody's dev in Devin. I'm like, what's happening? Then I saw a Samata street about searching his own history to see what. And I did my two and scover, I did not find, and I don't think I've even used the word dev in a conversation before. I am not sure, but I really doubt that. [00:08:45] Speaker A: Think I use it that often, too. But even. But with the fact that I don't use it that often, it is not one big word to me. There's something I feel people use. [00:08:55] Speaker C: Yeah, I've had people use it, but I've not used it. So I've had. [00:09:03] Speaker A: I don't know, I don't. I can't say for sure. [00:09:04] Speaker D: I use delve a lot. [00:09:07] Speaker A: All right, so, yeah, but one thing that came out of this whole conversation is the fact that we need to start playing a role in the creation of AI. We need our own strategy. Yes. In Africa. Because if you look at it, most of the innovations development, they are not even coming from Africa, if you are to be honest, it's mostly coming from the US and I think a bit from Europe. Yeah. So do you really think this means that we need to start creating our own AI strategies, our own AI companies? [00:09:47] Speaker D: Of course, of course, definitely. That is a conversation I've been having for the last two years, how we need to get on top of this, in front of this. Right, you're going to. And this is a clear example. Now, somebody might have written it might not have been. Let's assume the person is nigerian and person is like me, uses delve a lot, right? The person is used to. Because at some point in my life, I used to be a writer, a person is used to written text. I used to do poetry, is used to those words, you know, putting a lot of complex words together to mean something or mean different things. Now imagine the person sends maybe right up to Paul Garham, you know, he says, no, this is not a human, this is a machine. It now comes us to understand that here in Africa we have a way that we do our own things and the way that we create these AI. If I'm going to simplify, oversimplify it, right? It is what we call an approximation of the data that it is shown. So it tries to learn the entire support of data that it is shown. And if it is much more heavy or biased towards foreign text, you know, it's going to want to sound like that. If it is biased towards indian text, it's going to want to sound like that. But there are native problems that we have that we need the data to be reflective of our reality. And the only way that we can do that is if we begin to talk about our AI strategy. AI strategy from how do we collate data? How do we store data? How do we store history? Because right now it comes to a larger conversation. How are we cataloging our history? Because it is from this history that we're able to create models that help us, not models that help the world, models that help us solve our own problems, right? That take our own constraints into account. You know, something might be a problem, or I would say bus stops. Let's talk about the mapping. For instance, bus stops might not be as movable in the US as they are in Nigeria. Bus stops can be here today. Boom, the bus stops disappeared. Bus stop moved to 5 miles or 5 km off. Or something happened, you know, somebody decided to build something. So we are much more malleable to a lot of things, and we need to start cataloging our own data that is a reflection of how we talk, how we speak, how we engage, how we do things, and can also help us solve our own problems, also how we look. You know, I was. I was looking at. Somebody was driving, so my phone is primarily on French, but I was in someone's car, and then the person was driving with Google Maps, and then Google Maps was trying to sound nigerian. And then there's just some things just like, nah, man. Nah, this is not it. I'm sorry. It's not it. You know, or movies. And maybe that has come from, you know, movies, trying to, you know, trying to. Trying to help us replicate our culture in movies, and they're doing a very bad job of it. So we need to understand how we catalog our data, catalog our history. Then we need. We need policies in this place. We need to take the bull by the horn households, because we can only create value from, in a sense, localized data. I know that a lot of people tend to think about globalization, but, you know, I am, from the perspective of globalization solves a lot of things, but there are certain solutions that have to be local. You have to think local. And you can only do that if you're coming from Nigeria. [00:13:36] Speaker A: Yeah, but. Okay, so I think I recently had someone say, like, for Africa to create their own ZLM. So, foundational models. [00:13:47] Speaker D: Right. [00:13:49] Speaker A: It will take, I think, around $200 million. Right. So in your estimation, what do you think? So, besides money, right. I'm sure money is probably one of the biggest things that will help us right now. But besides that, what do you think it would take for us to create these things that you've said? [00:14:11] Speaker D: So there's a lot of give and take here. So I don't even see money as. I mean, $200 million Nigeria can resist. That's not an issue. But then how do you reuse it? Right in my mind, right now, we have this law that says banking data has to be domiciled in Nigeria. So if you build a data plan around that, where you now start to have state funds, state sponsored GPU centers, data centers, you have maybe a couple of data centers around, then you can start to look at how do we nationalize this, or how do we prioritize it or push private organizations to be able to do this. In a way, you start to localize the building of your llms. Then you need a policy around how you catalog data. And we need to get back to archives. How do you archive data? How do you. I have a friend who's doing a very beautiful job working on archive Ng, which is basically an archive of all nigerian newspapers. But basically you need such, you know, along every other. And he's been, I think he's working to catalog from 1960 till now. It's a huge amount of work that he's doing. And, you know, the question is, how do you push in this direction? How do you catalog? And there's a lot of work there. Videos, sound, audio from 1960. History policy. How do you catalog all of that? You need a policy around that. We need to prop up our. I didn't know Nigeria had an archiving center. So that's talking to him. We need to, need to start work around that. That is the data policies from the training you need to work on. How do you create your GPU centers then? We need to get back to our schools and start to teach people early. Right. We need to make sure that people start to learn. There are a lot of. No, these are policies. I think that we need to start right now. It might not yield fruit in five years, but we need to start now. And we need to look at it from both. How do you build the llms and how do you models and how do you cut it? [00:16:21] Speaker A: Nice. Nice. Well, that's, that's, that's a lot of work. I think that's why in cast guy, Bosun Tijani has been really heavy. I think that's why he recently did. [00:16:34] Speaker C: A committee for AI strategy. [00:16:37] Speaker A: Yeah. More of like a workshop where 120 experts will come together like create a. [00:16:43] Speaker C: Strategy and AI is part of what they are going to be talking about. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Yeah. So he's doing a lot of work. I mean, you have to. Okay, yeah, but I mean, we have to recognize that we've not seen the results yet. This is. He's executing some of the plans that he has laid out. So I guess when we see the results, we now know if those plans are actually good plans or not. But I mean, like Doctor Olumide said, it's a lot of work. [00:17:17] Speaker C: Even at the end of it. Before it's going to be a case of let's implement the plan that is a product from this workshop. It's going to be a case of still engaging. I believe engaging guys like Doctor Olimide that is doing work is true. [00:17:36] Speaker A: Are you one of those 21 20 experts? [00:17:38] Speaker C: No, it's not. [00:17:39] Speaker A: I think it. [00:17:40] Speaker C: No, it's not so engaging. So that's what I'm saying. Engaging people that actually, in that field, not just a case of, yes, you have big names there, you have the likes of Funke, you have. [00:17:56] Speaker A: I think there are foreigners, too. Yeah. [00:17:58] Speaker C: Good. God is good having people that are actually in the AI space. Really. And though they might not be there now, but before you actually implement whatever is come up, is now engaging those people like, okay, yes, this is what we want to do. Then you might have another insight that will help the implementation. At the end of the day, we achieve what we want to achieve. [00:18:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. So I think one thing, I just want to mention this. I think when Boston's journey made the announcement, a lot of people were like, why focusing on AI when you should focus on electricity? We have other problems. But I mean, obviously he's not the minister of power. Yeah, he's not. So we can actually do these things. Who knows? Maybe AI might solve our electricity problem. [00:18:53] Speaker D: I agree. [00:18:53] Speaker A: Yeah. You agree with me, right? I'm making sense. [00:18:58] Speaker D: Yeah. I mean, I was at an AI conference in Abuja and then somebody was making the argument, oh, why would you say AI? We don't have lights. We don't have lights. And my argument is, we generate a finite amount of power right now. And if you see what the work that was done in AI in the UK where they were able to use AI to reduce power consumption, it's something that we can. So it's like, so if we say right now, how can we use AI for efficient distribution? We might be able to maximize the utility of what we have right now. But then, before we even say, want to generate more. [00:19:40] Speaker C: But then our quest, the problem is not about distribution, it's actually about generation. We are not generating enough in the first place. [00:19:48] Speaker A: Okay, we are not generating enough. But what he's saying is, what if that little you are generating, you're able to maximize it. Right? [00:19:56] Speaker B: I mean, it's the help of. [00:19:58] Speaker D: Exactly. [00:19:58] Speaker B: You're not going to be enough. So the thing is, I don't think it's an either or case. [00:20:02] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:02] Speaker B: Right. You can do everything at the same time. [00:20:04] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:20:05] Speaker B: Hopefully, because you don't have. [00:20:08] Speaker C: You can't give. [00:20:09] Speaker B: You don't have. I mean, he's not your minister of power. If you need to have that conversation, you go meet your minister of power. [00:20:15] Speaker C: Well, they say she put you off your fridge. [00:20:21] Speaker B: I mean, anyway, I turned off my free dismantia. Boy. [00:20:27] Speaker D: It seems you guys are banned. You're in band aid when you're talking about. [00:20:31] Speaker B: I don't know if you have band. [00:20:32] Speaker A: I don't even know the band. [00:20:38] Speaker C: You will not see it again. You have to be using generator to power your plants. [00:20:44] Speaker B: There's not really an Ida or case. So do I think about it? Is the nigerian economy is like in the gutters right now. No one is telling the CBN governor, don't make a move until the army fixes insecurity or until the police fixes insecurity. Nobody is making the argument. You're not telling a governor, don't build roads because if you build roads, people are going to get kidnapped because the roads are now so good or something like that. Like it's good for. Exactly. We're not making those silly comparisons. Allow the man do what he was doing or what he was employed to do and then later on we can compare. We can compare notes. I think AI can actually be very helpful. And I've always said it, we like kulimi, they said, you either wait until five years later and you realize that you're so backward that catching up is almost impossible, or you get started now. Either with five years is going to go past and, well, my people say after we've finished running, we now compare results. So you either get started now or get started later. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Either. [00:21:54] Speaker B: That way AI development is going to go and it's going on or without you. So which would you like to do? [00:22:00] Speaker A: Yeah, we've spent quite a amount of time. I hope the English is correct. [00:22:09] Speaker B: And not AI generated. [00:22:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:10] Speaker A: So we've spoken about this for some time. So, yeah, all the best to our AI experts, everybody. I mean, a few years from now, we're just having that conversation. In a few years from now, we'll know whether know here is the next big thing or not. Time will help. I think it is. I think it definitely is. Chingo Zim agrees with me. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Not already the victim. [00:22:34] Speaker A: Exactly. So, yeah. Thank you so, so, so much for your time. Doctor Lumedate has been very insightful having you on the podcast today. Have a lovely, lovely day. Oh, and so moving from AI, we are going to Zimbabwe. [00:22:57] Speaker B: Right? [00:22:58] Speaker A: So Zimbabwe is doing something interesting. Yeah, they just launched a gold backed data currency. [00:23:06] Speaker D: Yes. [00:23:07] Speaker A: They are calling it zig zig. This is, this is the second time they're announcing that they've launched. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Mister Eze must be proud. [00:23:17] Speaker A: This is the second time they announcing that they've launched a goldbag digital currency. They did that in 2023. I remember doing like an explainer on this, how to work and stuff like that. Still the same thing. I don't know why the announcement is coming again. Funny enough, a lot of the reports didn't point out that one was behind us. Yeah, one was done. So, yes, that is what they are doing. So naturally, the question of most people. What's your question? What's going, okay, so this is it. [00:23:52] Speaker C: Zimbabwean dollar has been like on a very downward trend over the years. [00:23:59] Speaker A: Yes. You can add three variants. Actually, the very issue, like, it's been. [00:24:05] Speaker C: Like nosediving over the years, hyperinflation and all that. And then this is not the first time there having their currency backed by. [00:24:17] Speaker A: Like, rating on that currency. [00:24:19] Speaker C: Exactly. And so what has happened over five iterations of these changing me. And then you are now say, okay, yes, this. [00:24:32] Speaker A: Okay, so good. [00:24:33] Speaker C: Now it's just. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah, so they've never really been, they were never able to, like, solve their currency issues. So like you said, they. The last one they created was just five years ago, the zimbabwean dollar. They created it so that they have a local currency that works. But 80% of the time, people are still using the USD, they're using euro currency. Yeah. And the reason is because the currency kept losing value over time. I think right now, one us dollars is something. 6000 zimbabwean dollars. Yeah, that's, that's really bad. Right. Even back, back in, I think after the whole economic issue that happened in 2009, 2008, it was so bad that they had to create a hundred trillion dollar currency denomination. [00:25:37] Speaker C: Single notes. [00:25:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember, yeah. Because it was probably the first time I was introduced to anything in economics as a child. So my church had this bulletin. There were like some zimbabwean, there are some zimbabwean missionaries that came to Nigeria and then they tell these wonderful stories of having to buy bread and you have to carry like, a lot of money. It just felt ludicrous. Sorry, it's no AI generated, as you can see. It felt really, really felt really the. [00:26:11] Speaker C: Volume of money you are taking to buy. [00:26:15] Speaker B: And I'm, I'm thinking about it like this is now that. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Okay, so they've. [00:26:22] Speaker B: They'Ve been suffering for a while. [00:26:23] Speaker A: Yeah, a very long while. And currently the zimbabwean dollar is not. It's not what the paper is printed on, basically. So this new gold backed digital currency is an attempt to save their local currency. Right now, foreign currencies, that's what we were using in Zimbabwe. So this basically just means that the new currency, the value will be dependent on the market value of gold. Right. So that's what it means when you back a currency with something virtual. Yes. It's going to be a virtual currency because their, their central bank governor said one of the main problems that they've had was the amount of money it takes to print currencies. Right. So this takes away that problem of printing currency. Yes. But there are some issues. So I want to be, so I want to give Timgo Zimmerman Inca an opportunity to like, you know, ask some questions that they probably do not know or that they have about this. Who? Zimbabwean digital. [00:27:38] Speaker C: Okay, so it's. Okay, so now I said it's virtual. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:44] Speaker C: So I just checked, the cell phone penetration in Zimbabwe is 98.5. That's not smartphone. And I believe smartphone. Smartphone is probably going to be lower than that. And when you make it virtual for any country in Africa, even Nigeria, as high as we've gone in terms of technology and mobile Internet and mobile smartphone penetration, going something fully digital, it's really not the way to go, especially for something like currency. [00:28:16] Speaker A: That's, that's a very good, very good observation. I did not even think of that. So what this basically means is finance. So I think you are excluding a. [00:28:28] Speaker C: Lot of people from the financial system. You can say, yes, we are moving away from physical and we are doing virtual. I mean, you are kisser. [00:28:38] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:38] Speaker C: If it's a kisser, you can do it on an official phone. Yeah, well, if you can do it on. [00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah, they have it on the feature phone. [00:28:47] Speaker C: If you can't do it on the feature phone, anyway, in our series is supposed to be on future for. [00:28:51] Speaker A: Anyway, it is now. [00:28:55] Speaker C: Penetration. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Interestingly, that's not the only issue it will have. So another thing a lot of people have printed out is the gold they want to use to back it. Number one problem, I think that they have about a ton, which means that, yes, that's about $22 million. $22 million. [00:29:17] Speaker C: I know. [00:29:20] Speaker A: Even USDT one does. USD is one company that backs their, their own digital currencies with the dollar, they have about $100 billion in their own. [00:29:34] Speaker B: So just, just as an aside, has Zimbabwe considered getting acquired? [00:29:40] Speaker A: I mean, at least my neighbor in. [00:29:43] Speaker B: South Africa, I mean, I think South Africa is close. They can. Even if they are not like sharing borders, I think they are sharing borders. I'm not sure what they can import. Yeah, they can be administering them from a distance. [00:29:55] Speaker A: Another problem they could even if they had enough gold to back their currency. Another problem that some economists have pointed out is before, I mean, a lot of currencies currently, nobody is backing currency with gold now, right? But back in the day, it was. [00:30:13] Speaker C: Common in the, then into the nineties. [00:30:18] Speaker A: Back then when it was common, they kept the price of gold stable. Right. Because a lot of countries currencies were backed by it. But now that it is no longer backed by the value of good yeah, anytime it becomes volatile or it changes, it will still affect the currency. So there are a lot of things. [00:30:38] Speaker C: That's the question of sustainability. You said they have about 22 million, so how long would that 22 million last them? [00:30:49] Speaker A: I think someone said about three months. [00:30:51] Speaker C: Three months. So that means between that, before that three months ended. So that means they have to figure out a way to increase their reserve. So it's about sustaining, it's just who is going to borrow? It's not sustainable except if it's a case of, yes, they have, I just go that they can mine and then within that period of time. But it's still. The subsidiary is still bigger. It's not a total. I don't know. [00:31:18] Speaker A: People have pointed out that, you know, there seems to be a lot of confusion within the government because this is your 6th attempt. Right? [00:31:25] Speaker C: So you are doing a lot of things. [00:31:27] Speaker A: The last one was just five years ago, less than a decade, and has already gone through. So I don't know. African countries come together. Let's see what we can do for. We are also facing our own, actually, South Africa. [00:31:43] Speaker B: Take them under your wings, maybe administer them for the next 20 years, and I return them back to their owners. [00:31:50] Speaker A: Because that's basically colonization. [00:31:54] Speaker B: Three months. [00:31:55] Speaker C: Us and UK have colonies that they govern. That is not. [00:32:05] Speaker B: We are giving people electricity. What's there. If you are not giving them money, might as well do that. [00:32:13] Speaker A: All right, all right. Other stuff we have looked at. Yes. From looking at Zimbabwe's gold currency. [00:32:22] Speaker C: I really wish. Their currency. [00:32:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I wish. I can imagine it. [00:32:28] Speaker B: If you go as a nigerian. I mean, you be a bowler, like. [00:32:32] Speaker C: You be bowling like kind of 500k. [00:32:36] Speaker B: What's five hundred k? [00:32:37] Speaker A: Twenty k. All right, all right. Let's go to the final story. As you can see, my guests are not corporate. Right. Thank you very much. Moving on. [00:32:50] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:32:53] Speaker A: You're making fun of your country, but. [00:32:57] Speaker B: I mean, if you see the truth and you see that's why they drag. [00:32:59] Speaker A: Other african countries, dragging people on Twitter. [00:33:03] Speaker B: You should pick the economy first before dragging me. [00:33:06] Speaker A: You are bragging about your own economy. [00:33:08] Speaker B: I'm nigerian, zimbabwean, can't be chatting to me. [00:33:11] Speaker A: All right, all right. You have your point here. So moving on to the next topic. We're talking about jump and pass, right? They recently jump and they signed a deal with just right, which means their self. Okay, let me recap. Jump and pass is a self checkout startup and it has signed a deal with just right to get that service, that self checkout service at all just right branches in or just right stores in Nigeria? All I think just right stores are now about 26. They are mostly in southwest Nigeria. No, no, they actually just opened a few more. That's why they now about 26 or 27. Interesting. So it's a self checkout service, which means that once you enter in just right store, you check out yourself. Check out by yourself. You don't have to stand at the, um, what's it called? Standard, the checkout points, queuing and waiting for. Yeah. So, okay, first thing is, I think we need to explain how exactly does it work for people that don't. [00:34:21] Speaker C: Okay. [00:34:22] Speaker A: Wants to take that? [00:34:23] Speaker C: Yeah. You enter a store. [00:34:26] Speaker A: Okay. [00:34:26] Speaker C: Pick an item, scan does. So this is not the first. This is not the first you scan. So you know all items are QR code. You scan using the app, you scan and then get the price. Scan every scale, the price, the number of items you are buying. Scan everything. Once you are done, you make payments. And on your way out, someone now confirms what you pay. [00:35:01] Speaker A: At least that's, and that's where the problem lies for many people. All right, so people are saying, okay, I walk into a store, I scan. So you actually first can scan the store barcode so that the app knows which story. So because they've integrated inventories with jump and pass. So you scan everything that you've bought, all your items, and then you pay. Someone now has to confirm, yes. Right on your way out. So if someone still has to check, people are saying, doesn't it defeats the whole purpose of. [00:35:37] Speaker C: So the friction you are trying to. [00:35:38] Speaker B: So does not defeat it. Let's be serious here. Does not defeat it. So when I go to just right, okay, most just right is closest to me. I go to just write store these days. So I don't do bulk shopping. I should, I don't, um, I probably just wake up and walk in. My biggest problem is that I hate queues. I can be very impatient. So I hate queues. It's one reason why I don't use Shoprite. So here's now my problem. I think that by 06:00 p.m. There should be a few people at the store. And then I walk into the store and there's like 16 people on each queue. So for someone like me, is not buying a lot of things. Maybe six, seven items. It's like the perfect solution for me. I, what do you call it now? I scan my stuff. I pay. I get to the door. You tear the paper, cross check what I'm doing. [00:36:34] Speaker A: All of that is exactly what the founder said. He said it's more for people not buying. [00:36:40] Speaker C: There's actually a store that I use recently, so they have the guys that check you out. So if you are buying, if you have a lot of items on your cards, if you have fewer items, so you can. So there are people that attend to people with fewer items in their cart. So this can. So no, this is it. So as I said, it's not the first time that in a trying to do this. And the question I always ask is, so what different now that another startup is doing the same thing. So this is it. If you walk to any. [00:37:19] Speaker A: Just. [00:37:19] Speaker C: Right. Or shop right. Or any other bigger stores. So you see that they are. Their stores are designed in such a way that to take a number of checkout stations. Okay. But then you get to these places, I discover that of about, say, some have up to like ten or more and only about half or even less than half of the stations are manned. So it's just a case of trying to say, let's use technology to solve what you should just have people man these stations would solve. [00:37:54] Speaker A: Okay, so you're saying it's a problem of hiring multiple. So one of the solutions. So one of the perks for those stores. Right. [00:38:03] Speaker C: So yeah. [00:38:04] Speaker A: According to the Jumba pass website, is to reduce the amount you spend on, um, queues. Yeah. Employees. Right. So instead of having ten people at the checkout, now you can reduce it. [00:38:19] Speaker C: And you still need. Yes, I'm self checking out, but someone still need to confirm what I've. [00:38:26] Speaker A: So those people that you can. Instead of having. So my own theory is, instead of having four other people at checkout stations. [00:38:34] Speaker B: You now have whatever they do at the door. Yes. [00:38:39] Speaker A: It means that you are still going. [00:38:40] Speaker C: To queue when you get to the door. [00:38:41] Speaker A: So now that we know that there's still a problem. Okay. [00:38:45] Speaker B: Because right now I think that there are probably a few problems that we should probably look at. I used probably twice. But first is this is good for people like me, for someone like. Yeah. Who buy like a few items. Someone like, buys stuff like once or twice. And then her cart is like, she usually needs like two or three cards. [00:39:08] Speaker A: I'm telling Abby. [00:39:09] Speaker B: Yeah, two or three cards. Like, she can't use it. So I don't know what percentage of shoppers at a just right. Or a shoprite use like shop. [00:39:20] Speaker C: Okay, this is it. So the chance that someone walk into a just rights to buy one or two items is very safe in case of that particular item is not. [00:39:31] Speaker A: Well, we can't really know. [00:39:33] Speaker C: Yeah, maybe this is one of the. [00:39:35] Speaker A: Data points that this, because one of the things they will help those stores get is um, um, actionable data on how people buy stuff. [00:39:44] Speaker B: So maybe more like a market entry solution as opposed to the final bus stop. Like, it's not. If you say this is where you, if you say this is the hill you want to die on, you may be severely mistaken for a lot of reasons. Anybody can spin out fast checkout. We have a few, we have a few startups that are beginning to build solutions for SME's and it really doesn't take them much to replicate your solution. It's not exactly. [00:40:20] Speaker C: This is not even the first. [00:40:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not the first. So it's not, it's not novel. The way I see it is that this is a good way to get into, um, what you call it, get into the segment of the, of the, what do you call it, of the, of the market. So you have an omnibus, for example, that is doing, I think, financing, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, they're doing financing. Nothing stops them really, from implementing this and they have loads of data to back them and they can give them three, four months. They have the same solution you have. So I think this is a good way to get into the market, but definitely not the place that you want to, or not the hill you want to die on. So, yeah, it's a good solution. I should probably go to just. Right and check it out. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's still in barrier. They just write at Barriga for now only. I think, I think two, two in Lagos. So they're just so, yeah. Yes, they said in a few weeks it will get. [00:41:17] Speaker C: I'm still, I'm still not fully sold because I'll try it. So. So now this is it, this is, um. Maybe I see the entire Africa. It's a case of you are doing something and you want people to serve you in good. So there's one filling station that launch self service. So go to the filling station and you take out your pump and it. [00:41:41] Speaker B: Turns out people don't use it, you. [00:41:43] Speaker C: Still go there, people still sit in their car, expect you to expect someone to, and then they just like change the mother and have people stationed and services. [00:41:53] Speaker B: So you're saying a culture, there's still a culture play here. [00:41:56] Speaker C: Sort of. So, so, yes, you buy one or two things and you are going out. So someone behind me is buying four items, five items. These items need to be bagged. [00:42:10] Speaker D: Each. [00:42:11] Speaker C: Item needs to be bagged. [00:42:12] Speaker B: I mean, that's one of my struggles. Every time I have to go to like, I'm just buying like five things. But this man here is buying stuff for his family of ten. I have to wait for him to bag it. [00:42:24] Speaker C: This is why I said earlier about the fact that you go to these stores, they are designed in such a way that there will be enough checkout point. So if you have to station at. [00:42:32] Speaker A: This checkout point and you don't need self checkout, it's really going to reduce. [00:42:36] Speaker C: The bottle deck and you have more money. I went to this self checkout. You are spending money. [00:42:43] Speaker A: They're not spending any money. [00:42:50] Speaker C: People are going to be cured. Jump. [00:42:52] Speaker B: And making money from. Yes. [00:42:53] Speaker C: Wait. [00:42:54] Speaker A: Yes. But implementing it's not costing to the store. [00:43:01] Speaker C: But the store needs to have people stationed at where you are checking out. [00:43:06] Speaker A: After you already have employees that can do that. [00:43:09] Speaker C: So why don't you apportion those employees. [00:43:11] Speaker B: So I get what you guys are you. [00:43:14] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:43:15] Speaker B: Solving a huge pinpoint. Here's the thing I get. I think you talked about people abandoning carts because of the queue. I don't think that's the problem. In Nigeria, there are very few people that you've finished buying. You got on the queue and you dropped. You dropped what you're buying and walked out. Very few people do that because you already came there for a purpose. It's different if it's online shopping where, let's say I try to pay, it doesn't go through. And then I'm like, you know what, in this case, there's still a lot you would have to walk around. Of course it's good that you've gotten one person who is willing to test out the solution, but you still need that user adoption. [00:43:59] Speaker A: They have other stores that will be announcing soon. So. Yeah, I think. [00:44:04] Speaker B: Okay. [00:44:05] Speaker A: I mean, judging by that, maybe stores are kind of, I mean because. [00:44:10] Speaker B: So this is not for the stores. Yeah, it's for the stores, but not for them is for me. If I don't like it or if I don't care about it, I might as well do away with it. [00:44:20] Speaker A: Okay. [00:44:21] Speaker C: And, and you cannot force me. The other part is fine. [00:44:23] Speaker B: Do you want to start incentivizing me to use that? [00:44:26] Speaker C: All these big stores, they also have mobile app. [00:44:29] Speaker B: Yeah, some of them are. [00:44:35] Speaker C: Also has one. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't trust them enough to use. [00:44:38] Speaker C: This thing to their own app and. [00:44:40] Speaker A: All right, we spent a lot of time on Jumper pass, so we, we will be jumping passing to the end of this podcast. Thank you. So, so much for joining us. I think we've debated a lot of things on this podcast, so it would be nice if you could comment your own opinions. I'm sure you have them and also, like, share. Let's get opinions from other people. Yes. If you want to listen to, if you're on YouTube right now, you're probably seeing a snippet, am I right? So if you want to listen to the full podcast, just search for us on, well, let's see, Google podcast. So Google podcast, Apple Podcast, Spotify, Hat Radio, or any other podcast services, basically, don't forget to also go to the Techmodafcap website. We have loads and loads of stories there that we didn't talk about on the podcast. So keep yourself updated with those stories. And if you want something shorter that covers, you know, everything that's happened in the world of african tech, you can subscribe to the Tech Point Digest. It's our flagship newsletter. And in five minutes, Victoria, who handles the newsletter, will interestingly tell you everything going on in tech in Africa. But if you are more of an investment person and you know, you want to know where to raise money, how to raise money, who is raising money, why are they raising money and why do VC's give money? Chingo Zim is your guy. He has talked to in his career, he has talked to a number of investors, a lot of investors, a lot of founders. So you really be getting a lot from that newsletter. It's called equity merchants. You can subscribe to that too. And then if you are more of an HR space or you're an employee and you want to know what your rights are, what you should do, what you should not do, then pitch your tent with uluanifemi. She handles a newsletter called the modern workplace Africa. Yes. That is that. [00:46:41] Speaker C: I also have a podcast. [00:46:46] Speaker A: Yeah, sister company, Intel Point. They have a very interesting newsletter too. So if you are a data person, you are into data, or maybe not even into data or basically, yes. [00:46:56] Speaker C: Insight. [00:46:57] Speaker A: Yes. [00:46:57] Speaker C: Everything about life. [00:47:06] Speaker A: About the data on the happiness level. Yes. [00:47:09] Speaker B: Or divorce. [00:47:11] Speaker A: You need data on why you are seeing singles, things like that, interpoint as you. [00:47:15] Speaker C: And it's only once a, once a week. So, yes, once a week and then. [00:47:20] Speaker A: Yeah, it's once a week. All right, thank you very much for that. And yes, we said something about Zimbabwe. So we have an interesting insight for you about Zimbabwe. So in March 2024 this year, the zimbabwean dollar dropped by 14% against the US dollar. That is alarming. And I can see why they are scrambling for a digital currency, gold backed one at that. I wish them good luck. I wish them all the best. I mean, for someone who lives in Nigeria and has faced currency devaluation, I know how bad it is. And then, you know, considering how terrible it is, our heart goes out to everyone in Zimbabwe. So that is that. On the Tech North Africa podcast. Don't forget to comment. I really, really want to see what your feedback is on the podcast, on the stories we talked about. And we'll be seeing you next week. Bye for now. Bye.

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