Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Tech Point Africa podcast. I'm Oluwani Femi. With me in the studio today is Bolu, and we have a very special guest with us today. Not a first, but here we are. Always glad to have her with us in the studio. Her name is Rosemond Field. Othi Hiwa. Did I get that?
[00:00:21] Speaker B: Yes, you did. Awesome.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: I love it. Thanks for joining us today, Rosemond. Rosemond is a tech lawyer, right. And I don't know whether she's into litigation or corporate.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I am, but I rather run away.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: I like transactions more money corporate than that litigation. But yeah, she's a tech lawyer and she'll be providing insight into the stories that we're going to discuss today.
We have very interesting stories to talk about today, though few, but I'm sure you're going to love the conversation because the online has been buzzing this week since a lot is happening, and not just in the startup world, but also in the telecommunication Internet world.
No social media world, as it were. So we're going to start with one story that is close to Nigeria, and that is the Federal Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, FCCPC, as one suit that is expecting Meta, the parent company of Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp, to pay a whooping sum of $200 million, $220 million for.
For, you can bet, like not using Nigerians data. Well, and this case has been in the court for a few years, since 2021, and now there is a judgment, and that the tech company is expected to pay that amount to the commission.
There are other things to unwrap in that story, because I'm wondering why the focus is on meta to start with. Because what Meta is being accused. Is this an accusation? No. Is this an accusation? Well, what Meta has been accused for is what every big tech is involved in, and that is the way they use users data. But yes, yes, sorry, the questions we'll be talking about is why?
Why Facebook? Why meta? Why meta? To start with, why the target? It seems Meta is the target for many of these lawsuits in different countries, not just even in Africa. So let's start with that. Why meta?
[00:03:03] Speaker B: All right, so maybe, you know me when I start these things, I always like to come with a little bit of context. Okay, so first of all, the FCCPC is one of the regulators are appointed by the federal government to ensure that. So like, you know, federal customer consumption and all that. So one of the things that we need to realize is that this was not just a judgment that just came out of the blue, right. And it was not as if it was the Supreme Court that gave. No, they are regulators. And what they did was over the period of 38 months, they conducted an investigation, right. And the essence or the claim of the investigation were bothered on three things, because the question is, why meta? Now, first of all, the specific channels that were being investigated was WhatsApp and Facebook. But obviously, you know, when Facebook changed to meta and became the holding company, then they became the ones that took the parental responsibility for either for all its subject and of course its subsidiaries. So this investigation happened simply because there were allegations as regards the inappropriate use transfer, dealing with and of course, interference with the data of Nigerians. Now, as we all know, beyond FCCPC, we also have the Nigerian Data Protection Commission. Now, as at the time when the investigation was being conducted, what we had was a regulator. They were just regulators. They had not yet become a commission. So it was the NDPR, that's the nigerian data Protection Regulations that were enforced, 2019. Now, based on the investigation, based on the allegations, right, I'd mentioned three things. Number one, there were, what's the word? Allegations as regards the fact that unnecessary data that was not needed for the core functionalities of those apps were being collected from the citizens of Nigeria. If you look at the FCCPC acts, particularly running down from, I think, section seven downwards, and then of course, the nigerian data protection regulation, which you have some very specific sections also that talks about how data of nigerian citizens are meant to be used, whether they live in Nigeria or they are out of the country. And even the foreign transfer of data, you realize that even the european laws and our laws were very similar. So the first problem was that our data was not being used properly. Number two, the privacy policies and terms and conditions of use of those products were being foisted because we did not have an opportunity to say no.
Right. And that in law is called self determination. You have a choice to say, I'm not comfortable with these changes. I choose to. And the problem based on the investigative report, right, it was a very huge report based on that report. It was that, you know, if you say no, then you're not going to.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: Be able to use this WhatsApp. Yes. I remember that year when we did, everyone was supposed to upgrade and we accept this.
[00:05:57] Speaker B: I mean, I mean, and it's very funny because, and like you said, why better? So that I'm not just talking to. I need to give context because it's very important, because one of the things that actually means is that it is either our way or the highway. Now, if you look at. And that's the problem, especially in a country like Nigeria, where we have a lot of services that are tailored towards us. I was reading the investigative report and what they particularly said when they asked the representatives of metadata, why was that happening? They couldn't really give a very formal response because what we noticed is that our european counterparts have a right to choose to accept or not choose to accept the use of the data. It's called the right to self determination. You can say, okay, as a citizen, this is how I want my data to be used. But what happened is that if you say no, then your services are downgraded. Right. And it was a problem. So at the end of the day, the parent company had to take, had to take the fall for it. And I can tell you that there were interviews. In fact, there was an order to show calls. It's called an OSC. Um, I think they were even represented by nigerian council. Right. There was. I think that if you check the investors investigative report, you will see a link to a live investigative video that basically explains. And, you know, there was a huge process. So it was not just woke up one morning and decided to find. So this happened from 2021 even to now. Right. And that's the entirety of those. Those investigations led to the fact that, you know, you guys were in breach. Right. First of all, you are foisting privacy policies on us that, you know, the second is that we don't have the right to self determine. And then the way you are dealing with us are not the same thing. You're supposed to be a global company and your policies that, well, you know, it is what it is. And of course they were given that. Fine. And then they will say, the rest is history. Right. So we are waiting to see the outcome. Although there are rumors or speculations that they are going to appear. Who knows?
[00:07:47] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, they always do, of course. But again, another answer to the question of why meta, again is, like she said, they were requesting more than what they needed. And then when they asked them, they actually asked them what, what, what are you collecting exactly? And they could not say. They could not say precisely. This is what we collect. This is what we call.
[00:08:13] Speaker A: Okay. So that it doesn't count against.
[00:08:15] Speaker C: So one of the things that they collect that was very, that was alarming to me, right. Was right here. I can read it. They said such data, including device fingerprinting.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: So.
[00:08:29] Speaker C: And they said device fingerprinting may be shared with third parties and commercialized.
You get.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: So that's my protection. That's my I mean, like, that's the ultimate privacy.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: They forced you to click it. So everybody clicked it.
[00:08:47] Speaker C: And then it's, it's very, and when you, you know, brought up the European Union thing, right. It was discriminatory because you do not force people from other countries to accept these things, but you force people in Nigeria. And the reason why they were able to do that, for me, I think the reason why they were able to do that was because, number one, yes. They already had a monopoly when it comes to messaging. Right. In Africa, even in most, I think in a lot of countries. Right. So if I don't have WhatsApp today, I'm not a lot of people I won't be able to talk to easily.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: There was an open conversation.
[00:09:26] Speaker C: They knew.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: So in 2021, you know, and I remember writing an article and trying to say, is it worth it? Like, the dependency of Nigerians on this particular app, on this particular product would make them to not look at their privacy and just go with it. Because when you look at the, what's it called, the alternatives, you're going to be disconnected from the world. Yes. Telegram is like a, looks like a formidable competition, but yes, people still want to use what's up, as the boomers call it. You know, you. It is, it is. And I think FCPC, this move by FCPC is going to, I think it's going to like, not just end in Nigeria, maybe to explore other african countries.
[00:10:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: And I don't think, want to look into it.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: It might not be FCCPC alone because I think what FCCPC is really looking at is the collection of this data is making them stronger. Making them, is making them anti competitive because they have something to hold you down with. So it is possible that we might see other commissions actually suing meta.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Is that something honestly.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Like I, like say it's only to be expected. Right. And I mentioned this because even in Europe, like, they give, they give fines like no man's business, they are always before panels, answering questions. Right. So I think it's one of the things that we have to realize that in the age where we are, data is foil and data is oil.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:11:06] Speaker B: And that is why one of the things that were even mentioned in the report is that all of a sudden, based on the fact that they are collecting more information that is necessary, users are being exposed to all sorts of information that they would usually not even want to see. You know, it's not today, let's not deceive ourselves that we are literally, like, how I put it, statistics, when it comes to being able to proliferate advertisement and content our way and they keep swiping.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: African market is not huge, it's just zero point 70% of their market. But the kind of data they have vest from this side and using us, using those things to target ads as us, I think it's worth looking into. But yeah, where do we go from here?
[00:11:47] Speaker B: So. Exactly. I think that's the next thing I wanted to say. I would say that what happens after this investigative report is the most important thing. Everybody is screaming $220 million fine. But the main crux of the matter is that they have to go back because one of the recommendations or one of the things that were also stated in the administrative procedure was that the parties have to revert back to the privacy policy of 2016, which was seemed to be fair and even more in compliance with the NDPR at the time, right. Because the one for 2021 definitely goes against almost everything that the NDPR and you put in greater extension the GDPR stands for, especially when it comes to the data processing of nigerian citizens. Right? So that was when the fine was there, demanded for them to revert back to the old terms of policy. Right. And then to take proactive steps to ensure that data that was not necessary be completely extrapolated from their system. So I think that these are some of the things that we should monitor and follow beyond just the fact. Right. Because at the end of the day, somebody has to take responsibility for what they do. Like, you mean, you don't just say, oh, because you sign, you click the terms of conditions. And of course they even talked about how you have to even click. You couldn't even click it. I mean, like, you just have, just have to update.
[00:13:00] Speaker C: You just have to update or you don't use.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: Surprised as I was, I was busy on my water point. I've seen a very strange color on my screen. I'm like, why is somebody.
[00:13:11] Speaker C: I should not lie, I should not lie. When I saw that, I didn't think anything of it. Privacy was okay.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: I mean, I mean, like, I remember then that I have a friend that refused to upgrade. He said, if, like, if you push, you log me out. So WhatsApp, like, it went on and on for months. Yeah, I think until the end when they said, okay, if you have not upgraded, you will not be allowed to use WhatsApp. That was when, you know, I agreed to like, computate. But I knew then that, um, they knew that we didn't have a choice. And it is commissions like this that can fight for citizens.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: And I just want to say something, too, because this just occurred to me, is that even in the terms of use and policy, what they specifically stated was that they had the right to sell our data to third parties with or without our acknowledgement consent. Right. And let's not deceive ourselves. Big tech, they do this literally, right. You know, let's not even, let's not even lie. That's what they do. But for it to be so obvious, so out there in the open, and everybody's still like, I don't care. I don't care. That's why we need organizations like the NDPA. Right. And of course, FCCPC to really, you know, put a hash on this. Let's not go back. Let's not go back to the days of Twitter ban. That's a very interesting conversation. But I mean, the way forward for me is that let both parties realize that they are both responsible for the actions that they take, take steps to remedies, look at areas where they know very well that they are going against our regulations. Because one of the answers to some of the questions that the FCCPC asked them was that why is the law for Nigerians different from those for the Europeans? And they were like, oh, because of the uniqueness of our legal and regulatory uniqueness. The nigerian legislation literally almost copies and pastes from european legislation. So what exactly is the uniqueness? Right. So, I mean, like, what is good for the goods is good for the gander. We are not second class citizens simply because we are in a different continent. So it is important that the way they treat their european citizens, we should be treated as that. And of course, it's called the right to self determine. It's a fundamental right and it should be obeyed. Yes.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: There's also something we need to point out. Like when, when the fine came out, like, people were like, you want to find them again? Collect money? I think I want to commend the FCCPC for publishing something like this because it made us understand that it was not just the nigerian government trying to extort people again. They were. It actually made sense. There was an actual reason. So maybe for now, like, we should probably, maybe other agencies, right, that do things like that. They should explain, let us know, oh, this is why we are doing something like this. And not just that, we just see fines and things like that. And also for us, right. We should understand that these people don't necessarily have our best interest at art.
[00:15:55] Speaker A: It means the big tech.
[00:15:56] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:16:01] Speaker C: So when, when we see stories like that or when we see that government is going after them. I mean, our government is not safe.
I understand why we feel that way when we see those things, but it makes sense that the FCC piece is now letting us understand that.
[00:16:16] Speaker B: And another thing I would say, and I'm speaking from a legal perspective, please, founders, businesses, people who use information, please read laws. I know that it's very boring, but please read. Know your rights. I mean, like it's a, I don't know how we are going to do this thing, right. Maybe someone will come up with interpreting right in cartoon language or something. Because if you don't know, you, what you don't know will kill you, whether you like it or not.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Terms and conditions, you know, no matter how short it is.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: And the nigerian government is trying its best to explain this law. So we have the new law now. We have nigerian data Protection act, which I wouldn't say is so new, but there's a guideline now for the implementation. And it's in, it's going good English. So it's 20 pages. Just pick it one day and read. I mean, everything is not swiped on social media. Pick it and read. Like, we need to know what's going on so that, you know, we don't wake up on money as something is sounding strange to us, you know, very important.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: Yes. Ozmone just, just broke the table right now.
I'm sure everyone is affected. Either you own a business or you individual using services, whether it's global or local.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Honestly, organizations that don't have dpos or do not, and they process data, FCCPC is coming for them. It's a matter of time.
[00:17:28] Speaker C: I was saying that it will not end with meta.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: No. Now they are waiting because literally there was a deadline for processors of major importance to have submitted. That was June 30. And some people are still, we know, let's do whatever, whatever. Anyways, let me just stop here.
[00:17:43] Speaker A: Please educate which companies are affected.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: So, so, so under the law, right, you have data processors of minor importance and major importance. So if you are dealing with data subject of like a thousand, right, and below, you're possibly minor, but of course, above your major. Regardless of the fact, your number one responsibility is that you should always have a licensed data compliance protection organization that helps you do data audits.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: Okay?
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Right. They are responsible, based on the Nigerian Data Protection act to scan or audit your organization. Just the way you do a financial audit. You do a data audit.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: And based on that audit, you submit reports to Nigeria Data Protection Commission. It is required that it is done at least once a year. Right. And then even within your organization, have a data compliance officer that looks at your day to day operations and ensures that you have proper data compliance policies so that in issues as regards breaches and attacks, there is a clear system that says, oh, if you are having a bridge, this is how to escalate it to, you should have all those policies in place and of course get legal guidance, because I do a disclaimer now, whatever I say, you know, but like I said, it's very important. Those are things that business owners, founders and of course, companies should.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: So we cannot, companies should not be found breaking this or in front of this regulation. Please do what you're supposed to do if you're handling citizens data, because FCCPC is coming for you.
I love that. So we go to the next story, which the nigerian tech ecosystem has not taken well at all. And in a new development, us based neo bank that houses the account of many early stage startups that are probably corporated in the US have excluded or have announced that they will be excluding certain startups from certain countries, including a number of african countries, including Nigeria, from their services. So these people have been expected to move out their fund and close their accounts with mercury. If we remember, Mercury was like the out for many african startups when SVB had a bank run last year and shut down and down.
Mercury is saying, we can't oust you again. It seems like the risk associated with you is a lot. And it affected countries like Burundi, Cameroon, Car, Republic of Congo, Liberia, Nigeria, South Sudan, Zimbabwe and a few others. And it has not been taken well. It has not been taken well because it feels again like another discrimination, discrimination going on here. And there was also something that I saw that it is not just nigerian startups that are affected, or african startups operating in Africa that are accepted. Some startups that are funded, founded by Nigerians or Africans are also affected, even though they are not necessarily domiciled on the continent. And that sparked up another controversy entirely. Now, let's, let's talk about this. Um, before I go to where I feel that I might be held in the neck, let me, let's just look at the things that are very obvious and which is why, why will make.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: You do this now when they say why? So let's just start. Let's backtrack a little bit. This is not the first time they've done it.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: Um, they did this sometime in 2021 and did this in 2022, according to them, based on facts and some of the reports that have come out. Based on the announcement, some founders have complained that they didn't get any detailed explanation as to why the accounts were closed. What they just got was a notice in their email. Based on their internal policies and, of course, requests from third party service partners, they decided they were going to do this and all that. But based on a more detailed deep dive, realized that there are some countries that were profiled as high risk countries. Now, what's the definition of high risk when it comes to the closure of financial activity? You're dealing with issues as regards cyber crime. You're dealing with issues as regards anti money laundering, money laundering, and, of course, terrorism financing. And it is unfortunate that Nigeria, which is in quotes, that giant of Africa, is being compared to countries where there is high volatility, of course, terrorist wars. So Afghanistan, Pakistan, a couple of these countries, we are being put in the same and put into the same boots. Now, based on the fact that mercury in itself decided, did some sort of internal or compliance audit and had issues as red flags raised, you know, in relation to its business functions, that it had to basically just cut off some certain customers from its pool of service. Service users. Now, the reason why they would say this is a problem is because, well, doing businesses can be very tricky. Right. And it is unfortunate that this is what it is. But, I mean, they have a right to say, oh, we are. I mean, I don't think there's anything that says you must provide a service. Right. Because they basically looked at the environment and said, you know what, we are profiling. So let me tell you. So paper, Nigeria has been excluded.
[00:22:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: Right. We've been excluded a lot of things. We have been excluded. It is unfortunate, but it is what it is.
[00:22:53] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: Right. So I think the last thing I want to say is that based, like you rightly said, after the collapse of SPV, right. I think 22 SBV, SVB, the Silicon Valley bank, what happened was that Mercury basically was the next option. So a lot of people flooded into Mercury. Now, based on reports, it is deemed that the United nations recognizes 195 countries. But guess what? The number of countries that are on Mercury's database as regards users is about 200. So that means they had accounts in every country.
Plus, plus, plus. So based on that already, they already have a huge risk profile. So based on that risk profile, I believe strongly that they must have done some audits, their parties, their shareholders, stakeholders must say, guys, you know, I feel like there's a challenge here. You know, it's part of risk management, really. So it was more or less like an operational thing for them. You know what? Based on the fact that we need to elevate or reduce our risk profile, we're going to cut some countries out. And it's unfortunate. Nigeria, our beloved country, was one of the countries that was taken out. Yeah.
[00:23:57] Speaker A: So there's this question we get to ask when things like this happen. Why always us?
[00:24:02] Speaker B: Why not. Let me not say why not us, but I mean, like, honestly. Okay, let's look at the facts. Really?
[00:24:08] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:24:09] Speaker B: Right. Let's. Okay. I'm not trying to say that we honestly, I feel bad that we. There's a black cloak that just casted upon us. Doing business is already difficult, already right in the country. Talk less of doing it outside the country. As a lawyer, I sit on a lot of investment panels and I see that a lot of founders register in Delaware. They register in the US simply because when it comes to foreign direct investment, it is easier to get funding from a foreign investor when you have a based in a jurisdiction that outside Africa. Let's tell ourselves the truth, because it is very hard to repatriate capital when you put in funds into the african country.
[00:24:45] Speaker A: Yes. Even multinationals that. Global multinationals, they can tell the likes of MTN, they can tell what it takes to repatriate funds.
[00:24:53] Speaker B: You know, they'll tell you.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Airlines.
[00:24:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Nopta will tell you, oh, you need to obtain a certificate of capital importation. We know that can take forever if you do nothing. Know the right things to do. It is a lot of legal issues that are possibly not understood by a lot of business owners. So based on this, founders have to find a way, and then they collaborate with international organizations and they go and register abroad. By the end of the day, now that we have been shut down, the next best thing, and that is the.
[00:25:16] Speaker A: Most painful part, because we feel we are running away from something. And there's this adage in Europe, you say, don't go out, don't go out. The outside will chase you back in. Literally, that's the literal translation of it. Now you've gone out. Gone out. Now the outside is not looking good. And this is something else that have accompanied this conversation that is going on, is instead of asking, why us?
Why are we not asking, what lesson is there to learn from this? So let's talk about that. What lesson is here to learn for african startups, or nigerian startups, as it.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Were, we need to stop what is whitewashing regulatory compliance. That's the very first thing that I need to say that we have to do as not just a country. But as people who are interested in actually building businesses, there's a reason why we have regulations that have to do with cybercrime, right? I mean, we already have a bad reputation when it comes to issues like this, when it comes to terrorism. Right. Sometimes when you watch some very international, they will not talk about the good things that are happening on the continent is the killings that are happening in Borno and the whatever. You can only tell how it's coloring the mindset of people who are trying to do business in the country. And then let's not. Let's talk about the unnecessary inflation. The last time I was on this set, we know how much fuel was, right? And now, I mean, we are not making things easier for ourselves. So if we are making life difficult for ourselves, do we expect other people to treat us better? If we are not treating ourselves better, people will not treat us better. So the first responsibility we have is we should stop whitewashing this thing that we call regulatory compliance. If we say that we want to comply with anti money laundering, let us know that that is what we are doing. The regulators have to explain these things to us. They have to harp down on it. And we also, as business owners, have to ensure that we are also in compliance as well so that we can know that, okay, if we are even going to contest against being discriminated from any international service, there's evidence to show that we are doing our own part.
[00:27:17] Speaker C: So, yeah, you are totally right. Right. And yeah, we, we are these issues that we need to look at and. But then I want to play.
And there are also, I saw tweets about founders who said their residential addresses in the US, company addresses in the US, basically everything is us. The only thing about them is because nationality. So is it that there could be on Mercury's side, right. There could be some profiling. Profiling, discrimination.
[00:27:53] Speaker A: Not just, I have no doubt, because, yes, that is, that is some. Because it is easier for you to be explained the way for companies that have served in Nigeria, in Nigeria and domicile in Nigeria. But there was her name tweeted, I was like, there's nothing. The only thing connecting me to Nigeria because of my name as it. I don't know if nationality is still Nigeria. It's because of our name and our startup was affected. Right? So there are still some explanation that mercury has to do. Or maybe it's just like a general blanket that everybody was packed into and you're going to be affected.
[00:28:30] Speaker B: Wrong. If it was a profiling thing, right? Targeted to the nationalities, then that is a problem, right? I don't think it should be. It's excusable. If you want to do business, you'll make a business, make a business decision. Don't color it with issues as regards that. So yeah, I agree with him in that.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: So there's probably a hint of profiling there, as it were. So now there are since then, right. We can bet, I'm sure companies that are providing similar services, cross border services as mercury have been in everybody's faces. They are doing ads on different platforms, including, including tech points. You know, you want to know. Okay, Mercury has moved now this is the next thing to do. So now what are the, what is what? Why? Let's talk about first of all, why these startups have did not consider nigerian solution or african local solutions in the first instance, right. And then let's talk about them now coming to use them, right. What are the implications that, that are, that can happen? Why, what can happen if you're using a local solution, right. To owe your money as it's where what you were doing with Mercury or SVB.
[00:29:48] Speaker B: Okay, so I think I already a little bit answered that question because if I get your question, you're saying, why don't you have local solutions?
[00:29:54] Speaker A: There are actually. Why are they not using these solutions?
[00:29:58] Speaker B: Very, very clear. First of all, founders need funds to run their businesses. Many investors are not going to invest in the nigerian era. Possibly they will tell you even if they're going to convert, they will convert at the USD rate, right? And many of these founders raise in USD as well. So that simply means that if you are going to be bringing in capital into the country right now, let's just give a typical example. We have you tried to send money or have you tried to use the banking system to try to collect money? Of course, maybe not in a large figure, but imagine a founder or an investor bringing a legacy, $500,000 into a nigerian bank account.
I mean, first of all, let us not talk about the regulatory issues that you are going to even encounter in the face. Let us even talk about the investors having to collect their money back. We've talked about, I mentioned clearly we have what is called the National Office for Technology Acquisition and Promotion, right. And one of their responsibilities is to ensure the easy flow of FDI foreign exchange from country to country. So usually before you can even collect your money back, you have to obtain a CCI, which is exciting. Capital importation, importation and all that. It is stressful.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: The summary of this grammar, I'm speaking is that it is stressful to invest USD in Nigeria if you do not have the revenue. That's why people go outside and put their monies there and they only bring in money to the country for operational expenses, pay their employees and all that. But for the main cash, they like to keep it outside because of their stability.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: So there's now the possibility that these startups would look for another alternative outside.
Interesting. So definitely they have to because economy.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: Is not helping, right? Look at us in a. Yes, you should be taught.
And then you see founders that are making money in, for example, a startup that is based in Nigeria, possibly, maybe other countries, hopefully. Right. They are, they are earning revenue in naira, but you have to pay your investors in dollars. Does it make logical sense when it comes to how you have to report? So you possibly could be making a profit, but next two weeks you have made a loss automatically without doing nothing.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: Nothing, just because exchange rates and inflation.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: You know, I think at the end.
[00:32:08] Speaker C: Of the day, just no matter what solutions are there, it always comes back to the fact that you need to repair stuff here first.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Like I think so it is not.
[00:32:19] Speaker A: A matter patriotism or something.
[00:32:22] Speaker C: Yes, you need to like. No, I'm saying that if.
[00:32:25] Speaker A: Yeah, you can always use patriotism to come and use alternative, local alternative Nigeria will always happen.
[00:32:32] Speaker C: So that is why stuff needs to be fixed here. You can see people that because just because of their name they have also chopped stray bullets because. So we just need to fix. We need to fix things.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: It's a systemic problem that needs to be fixed in Nigeria.
So if you're listening to us, we decided to focus on Nigeria because we are nigerian. There are a lot of african countries that are affected. Maybe they should do their podcast.
I'm not saying we will not talk about other african countries, I'm just trying to talk about the emphasis on Nigeria. You get. We are talking about the emphasis in Nigeria because, well, the last funding report reviewed that most funding went to Kenya and Kenya was not on this list.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: So a huge sigh.
[00:33:27] Speaker A: Yes. So Nigeria is affected, so you understand the pain. And we are hoping that we are able to fix a lot of things that is wrong with our economy that is affecting things like this. And even the local alternatives are struggling as it were today something is up the other, the next day it is not up again, I can't move my effects.
There are things that keep happening. So we are hoping that these guests fix and our mercury. It was a good run while it lasted.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: Hopefully they open up their borders as they did before 2022.
[00:34:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully. All right. Thank you for joining us once again today on the second Africa podcast. These two conversations are what, like us, are on the mind of people. And we say that, let's just do it. On the podcast today, you can find other news. A lot of things. A lot of things is happening in the african tech space, and you can find them on the tech Point Africa website. Just go to Techpoint DoT Africa and you will find those stories there. Don't forget to interact with our stories on our social media platforms, on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter, and also on LinkedIn. You can also subscribe to our newsletters. We have four solid newsletters running in tech points currently, and we are not even a newsletter.
Yes, we have the Tech Point Digest. It's a week daily newsletter that talk about happenings of the previous day. It brings you up to speed with that. We also have the modern workplace newsletter where we have conversations about the workplace all over the world, also, as they relate to Africa and Nigeria, as it were. We also have Kutech. How could you advertise my newsletter by myself? Okay. Okay.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: Yeah. It's called the Alkutech work.
It also has a podcast. So, where we just talk about, like, really interesting technology, and then we'll explain how they work. Very, very interesting stuff.
[00:35:35] Speaker A: Yes, we also have equity merchants that talk about the startup space and investment world. And yes, that. Don't forget to subscribe to those and also listen to our podcast. We are podcasters in there. Not just tech metabolic podcasts. We have other podcasts running. We have the Equity Merchant podcast. We have Aqua Tech Works podcast. We have the modern workplace conversations.
I'm loving that conversation. If you've not yet subscribed, you can look for all this podcast on any of your favorite podcast platform and follow us. Thank you for always joining us on this podcast, Rosemond. Thank you. It's always.
We hope to have you very, very soon. Thanks for joining us. All right, that's it for today. Bye.
