Davido, Sabinus, and the meme coin craze

Episode 229 June 20, 2024 00:42:25
Davido, Sabinus, and the meme coin craze
Techpoint Africa Podcast
Davido, Sabinus, and the meme coin craze

Jun 20 2024 | 00:42:25


Hosted By

Chimgozirim Nwokoma Oluwanifemi Kolawole Bolu Abiodun

Show Notes

Today on the podcast, our hosts discuss:
  • Celebrity meme coins
  • Ampersand and BYD's EV partnership
Link to Insight of the Week: https://bit.ly/3XwP41f
00:00 - Intro
00:44 - Celebrity meme coins
23:18 - Insight of the Week with Intelpoint
24:40 - Ampersand and BYD's EV partnership
Useful links
This episode was produced by Ogheneruemu Oneyibo and Crystal-Agnes Joseph
Email us your feedback at podcast@techpoint.africa. Visit www.techpoint.africa/ for more stories.
Music - Beach by MBB -
Find us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @TechpointAfrica
View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Tech Points Africa podcast. I am Oluwanife Mikola Ole. I have Bulu and Chim Guazirem in the studio with me today. I'm your regular host, and we're excited to be here today because today it doesn't happen every time. All we are going to be discussing today are imagine technologies. We'll be discussing meme coins, cryptocurrencies, and electric vehicles and how different things are happening in that space across Africa. We have an interesting guest with us in the studio, who I will be introducing in a bit. But let's get to the first story. Under two months, two nigerian celebrities have launched their meme coins. David O. Timeless meme coin, and Sabinus, the investors meme coin, which happened, like, in less than a week ago, and it kind of felt like people were looking forward to it because there were a lot of tweets going on about them. But before we knew it, Davido's coin crashed in a few weeks after. Or is it a few days after? And then there was a report or announcement from SEK, the Securities Exchange Commission, that Nigerians should be careful or wary of meme coins. And it brings forward the question of the legality of coins like this, especially the ones that were launched by celebrities, people that could have pulled crowds easily. And that's why we have our guest with us today in the studio. I'll leave him to introduce himself before we get fully into the conversation. Senator, you're welcome to the Tech Metabolica podcast. Can you introduce yourself to our audience? [00:02:01] Speaker B: Thank you very much. My name is Senator E. Heyem. I'm the lead partner of the inscription lawyers and also the immediate president of the Stakeholders and Blockchain Technology Association, CBAM. It's great to be here. [00:02:17] Speaker A: It's awesome to have you too. Thank you for joining us today to have this conversation, and quickly. I think we should just get into the part where we talk about the, like, the legal consequences for launching meme coins in Nigeria. And I want us to streamline it to celebrities launching meme coins. We understand that like every other cryptocurrencies, it's. You can't tell somebody that this thing is bad, that is not bad to invest in. You can just be safe in the way you play around that investment space. But what are the legal consequences or the implications or the ramifications for launching meme coins in Nigeria? [00:02:58] Speaker B: Very interesting question. First, it's good to note that meme coins fall within the general framework of virtual assets or what some people call digital assets or crypto. And when it comes to cryptocurrencies or virtual assets, we've seen increasing adoption across Africa, especially in Nigeria, which is now the biggest market as far as virtual asset is concerned. Having said that, the emergence of meme coins is not something peculiar to Nigeria. We've seen how globally mem coins like Dogecoin, Shiba, Inu, te pair and all the rest of them have been emerging really fast. Of course, these meme coins are not supposed to be treated as serious investment schemes or tokens or coins. They are rather just for the fun of it. For those who introduce these mem coins, however, we've seen over the years how people continue to put their money in memcoin with the expectation that they will get returns on their investments. So whether we like it or not, memes have gone beyond just phonomen for some people who put more than interesting. While it remains fun and entertainment for some people who issue or promote or endorse these meme coins, I recall particularly in May 2021, at the peak of crypto adoption globally, we found that meme coins like Dogecoin and Shiba Inu were particularly getting people interested and a lot of money was put into it when a lot of people lost money as well after that period came down, crashing in the perspective of Nigeria. Nigeria is a country that has seen a lot of adoption of crypto, including meme coins. As a matter of fact, some latest reports we have seen show that most abduction of meme coins happen from the northern part the country. We do not, we are not sure why, but we've seen meme coins being mostly adopted from that part of the country. And these meme coins, what are the implications of launching them, especially as a celebrity? One, I am not aware of any specific regulation in Nigeria that purchase on new coins. And so a lot of people believe that meme coins are not regulated. Therefore, you can do anything with it and get away with it. But that is not, that is not completely true, and I will say why. First of all, you have to see meme coins within the general framework of virtual assets in Nigeria. Especially in the last two years, Nigeria has made quite big steps on when it comes to regulation of venture assets. As we speak today, we have what the securities and Exchange Commission in Nigeria introduced in May 2022 to regulate what we call the digital asset space. And that framework covers issuers of tokens and coins. Memcoin is a token and a coin now where it is being used for the purpose of investments, or it is the way it is being adopted is characterized as something that has to do with securities or commodities. This is where the securities and Exchange commission may be interested. Apart from the securities and Exchange Commission, which governs investments and securities generally, we also need to understand the Money Laundering act of 2022 specifies that virtual assets are now also treated as funds or something that represents value, and anyone living in that space needs to ensure that it is not being used for the purpose of owning laundry and all that. It goes to the Terrorism Act 2022 as well, which was enacted by the National assembly to ensure that Nigeria has a cover or protection as far as the use of tokens and coins or crypto for terrorism financing is concerned. You also have to be mindful of that. Why am I seeing all of this? I'm saying this because we need to contextualize Mem coin adoption within the general framework of virtual assets. It is true that the SEC has come out to say that meme coins are not regulated because they are not securities, which is true. But we find that a lot of people continue to put money in Mem coins for the purpose of investment. Therefore, in substance, I'm not looking at the shadow of form. In substance, there seems to be some investment activity going on which I think that celebrities would now need to be a bit more mindful, especially when they are not just endorsing an existing meme coin like Dogecoin, Pepe Shiba, Inu, wakanda Inu and all that. But they are themselves now creating the meme coins under the securities framework in Nigeria. As far as digital assets is concerned, a new coin may, when you create a new coin, you may qualify as an issuer depending on how people who are adopting approaches. Right. So will there be consequences for living coin or for putting money in coins? I think yes. Within the general framework of our laws, you have to ensure as a celebrity that you are not abusing your celebrity status to influence or deceive people in a manner that people put their money into your scheme and at the end of the day you suffer financial losses because they treated your so called entertainment and just for the fun of it, mint coin as a means of investing. Right? Issuers, especially celebrities, also need to be mindful of the fact that in other jurisdictions like the UK and the US, we have found celebrities being held liable for knowingly or knowingly influencing members of the public into making financial losses or suffering financial losses because these mem coins were issued or adopted or endorsed by its celebrities. Very interesting. Important to note so that when we find that eventually, depending on how nigerian celebrities continue to adopt and they use mint coins and endorse them in the country and people continue to suffer financial losses. We may find that at the end of the day, the SEC may become interested in investigating these things and taking enforcement steps. So we need to be careful about that. The last thing I would like to also point out is that, is that celebrities should endeavor to consult with experts in this area. Trust me, the cryptocurrency space is not an area where you want to dabble into and make overnight money. It is not. So as a matter of fact, I speak with some sense of responsibility here. Nigeria is suffering a lot of clampdowns, crampdowns and shutdowns in the crypto space. Currently, the last thing that operators or the good actors in the space want to see is having celebrities knowingly on doing abuse their celebrity status to promote new coins that, you know, raise people's hopes and then crash the next morning. It's not just going to make a lot of sense as far as the general level of consumer protection and register safety is concerned with the space. [00:12:16] Speaker C: Okay, so I just want to ask, is it because it kind of feels like if I'm a celebrity now and I have a lot of influence, I can influence people to do things, and then I create, let's even remove crypto and blockchain from it. And then I create something and I say, put your money here. It's kind of a way to solicit money from those people, right. And telling them to give me an indirect way. So if me, for example, if I invested in Davido's coin and I lost money, is it possible for me as a person? Because I remember that day, some people sued Ronaldo, I think some months ago, for 1 billion naira. Right, for promoting binance. I think Binance started an NFT thing back then. So if I decide to sue Davido, for example, would I have a legal standing? [00:13:14] Speaker A: On what grounds can you sue Davido? [00:13:16] Speaker B: Yeah, interesting question. And I like how you started taking it a little away from just a min coin affair. [00:13:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:25] Speaker B: Now, Nigeria has what is called the investment and securities. Right. It governs anything that has to do with securities, commodities or other means of investments. Now, when you are a celebrity and you have introduced a project or coin or token or scheme or products, you have a responsibility to ensure that consumer protection and investor safety is protected. If you do not have those mechanisms that help you enable this, you will get yourself into problems relating to other jurisdictions like US and UK. We may say that Nigeria has a lax regulatory enforcement climate. But if you go to places like the UK, the US, it has been shown time and again that when you are a celebrity, you cannot allow yourself to be used, talk more of using yourself to endorse or promote any product, not even just a token, any products that may affect or potentially affect the financial lives of members of the public. And this is where I think that the securities and Exchange Commission may need to be a little more proactive. It is true that based on Nigeria's extant or present laws and regulations, you may not be able to strictly get celebrities to answer in court for what they are doing. But as the securities and Exchange Commission, you know that consumer protection and investor safety are statutory duties of that agency. I think that two things should be happening. One is we should have an institutionalized investor protection program or education program. We've seen in other countries how they have been proactive enough. It is the SEC in these countries that establish cryptocurrency investor or crypto asset investor education programs. I would like to suggest that the SEC should look at that so that a lot of Nigerians who follow celebrities will understand the risk around these things. I also think that celebrities themselves have a lot of responsibility. Right? It is not enough to say you're interested in joining in all these hype and all about crypto and all that. You need to be able to work with experts, people who understand how these things work. You need technical expertise, you need legal expertise, and perhaps even tax issues. I mean, who says that there is no tax involved in what has just happened regarding Davido and all of that? After all, we recall that the National assembly passed into law the Finance Act 2022, which recognizes 2023, which recognizes digital assets. And it says that any time that you dispose of a digital asset tax applies 10% of that. So these are conversations that we need to have openly, so that both celebrities and members of the public will understand their rights and liabilities. So we don't begin to create, you know, if we open a floodgate whereby all of these celebrities will begin to introduce all sorts of meme coins, and then the old place will be a complete mess. Let's not forget that meme coins do not have any fundamental value. However way you are able to push it way up to the moon, it will almost always crash. For sure. The issue is when it could be the next day, it could be the same day, it could be next year, but it will always crash. So that is something that I think the SEC also emphasized by saying there is no fundamental value to this this is not regulated right. So that is what I would say members of the public should look out. [00:18:19] Speaker A: For talking about messes and the things people should look out for. You know, I love that you added a lot of disclaimers when you were responding. These are virtual assets. You can invest in them, but be careful. They can crash at any moment. They can be for fun, for entertainment and all. And I realized that for a person that probably decided to ignore the disclaimers or just went ahead to put their life savings in a meme coin, which eventually crashes the next week, how do you feel that the popularity of meme coins now? How do you think is going to affect adoption of cryptocurrency in Africa and generally how people. We view blockchain as a disruptive technology, not only in the financial space, but in every aspect. How do you think it's going to affect it in the long run? [00:19:22] Speaker B: Interesting question from the facts and figures out there. What we have found over time is that mem coins are both a cost and a blessing as far as crypto adoption is concerned. On the one part, it is a blessing. Why? Meme coins are, from reports, easily the most common window to the crypto world. If you talk about people who are extremely new to cryptocurrencies, you find that they almost always approach the crypto industry from a mem coin angle. So they first find out or discover meme coins like dogecoin, meme coins like tepe, like shiba inu, talk about wakanda. These are all meme coins, and people easily get onto them. Why? One, they are extremely fun, and so it spreads really fast. There's no serious conversation happening. Two, they are driven mostly by people who are very popular, and so they get to the populace very fast. Three, they are the cheapest to get. I mean, with just 1000 naira, you can imagine how much dogecoin or meme coin. You can get any meme coin at all, right? I imagine that Davido meme coin would have been extremely cheap for those who put as much as 1 million naira. You can imagine these guys can be billionaires in a trinkle just by holding that money so few hours ning coin as a lesson. But when it comes to as a cost, you find that people who suffer losses because they adopted mem coins, some of them never return to the industry. They never come back because their initial experience was extremely negative and unwholesome. You find that they have very negative news about the entire cryptocurrency and even blockchain space, which eventually affects adoption in the long run. I would say that if we really want adoption to go mainstream, we cannot continue to risk short term adoption for long term adoption. Because if you find people always experiencing financial losses because they adopted meme coin, many of those people will never return to the industry, and that affects adoption in the long run. So I would say that people who issue or introduce meme coins should be extremely open and transparent about the risk around them. The idea of making people think that they can become overnight billionaires has to be taken off. We have to face the idea that, hey, meme coins are only for porn. And what I have seen recently, and this is interesting, is that after the initial rush for the meme coin and then the meme coin adoption has dropped, what you find is that the issuer then begins to think about, okay, now that people like this and it has crashed, how do we bring it back up? All right, let's make meme coin. Let's begin to introduce utilities. Sometimes it's too late because by that time, you find that most persons were interested in a coin, weren't interested in utility, they were just interested in doing overnight. [00:23:15] Speaker A: Thank you very much. [00:23:16] Speaker C: Thank you so much. [00:23:17] Speaker A: Senator. Before we move to the next story, if you remember, last week we talked about central bank digital currencies still in the mood of cryptocurrencies. And we have an interesting or insightful chart to share with you, courtesy intel points. It is a chart showing how many african countries have central bank digital currencies in different stages of adoption or launch. We mentioned last week that two african countries have launched their CBdcs, but I would like to make it a little correction to that. One of those african countries, Senegal, cancelled it in 2016 for compliance reasons. And currently Nigeria is the only country that have a working CBDC or an active CBDC. Meanwhile, there are others that are still in research state. That is, 18 african countries have their CBDC in research stage four and pilot stage two are inactive. One is in the development stage. We drop a link to the chart in the show notes. You can also find the charts on Intelpoint Co. You also find many other data insights on that website. So let's move to the next story about electric vehicles. Earlier in the week, there was a partnership signed by Rwandan Electric vehicle manufacturing company Apassant and chinese electric vehicle manufacturer, too. And it's an interesting one because you're wondering, why are we talking about this? We understand that the penetration of electric vehicle adoption in Africa is still developing and more people are embracing it. But these two are big. Are big. For instance, amphasat in Africa is supplying or producing a high number of volume of electric vehicles that have been used, electric bikes rather, that are being used on african roads, especially in Rwanda and in Kenya. And now another chinese giant in the space is collaborating with them to provide batteries for these vehicles. So it is worth talking about. And we envisage that this is going to be huge for the african e vehicle market. So let's just discuss it in a bit. Before we leave this podcast, we want to look at how Ampersand would leverage this partnership, especially the NTAP expertise, rather, and the resources that is available for the chinese company. How can ambassador leverage this partnership? We know it's going to be huge, but we want to know how Ampasad will leverage it. Chimpanzee, can you take us on that trip? [00:26:20] Speaker D: Okay, so if you just a little background, like to contextualize the conversation. Ampersand is a about six or eight year old startup providing EV's, but specifically motorcycles. So on the. Just like a casual look at it, you're. You're seeing Ev's. Everyone across the world is talking of EV's. Yeah. They're not exactly spending a lot of time on motorcycles. [00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:53] Speaker D: So why are they doing that in Africa? We have over 27 million motorcycles. 80% of them are reportedly being used for commercial transport. If you live in Lagos, you're very familiar with okada bands. If you live in parts of East Africa, I think they are called tuk tuks or sorry, they are called bodaboda, if I'm not mistaken. [00:27:16] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:27:16] Speaker D: Yeah. So it's a popular. [00:27:18] Speaker A: I mean, East Africa. [00:27:19] Speaker D: Yeah, East Africa. They are. They are popular. They are popular means of transportation across the continent. Right. And cars are expensive already, whether they are EV's or petrol vehicles. They're expensive. So. [00:27:33] Speaker A: And then the fuel too is expensive. [00:27:35] Speaker D: Well, as well, it's expensive and all of that. So, yes. That. That kind of informs why ampersand began building motorcycles. However, I kind of disagree with you on it being big because 27 million then, they have only sold roughly 3500 bikes in the entire history. Doesn't feel like a big, big number to me. [00:27:58] Speaker A: Do you mean a percent? [00:27:59] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, 1%. Like in terms of. [00:28:04] Speaker C: In terms of. [00:28:04] Speaker D: Evan, Rwanda. No, I'm looking at it. Yeah, you're looking at it in terms of EV's. I'm looking at. Looking at it in terms of, like, motorcycles. You're barely making a dent in the industry. 27 million and you just have like 3005. Okay. [00:28:22] Speaker A: I think it's a good start. I don't know. I don't. I don't think we should. [00:28:24] Speaker D: You could say, I mean, yeah, we are not going to dwell on it. I'm just saying that I kind of disagree with it being a big deal because 3000 is not a lot, but yeah, moving, moving ahead. Um, how could they leverage by these expertise, resources? Two things is, you mentioned earlier that BYD is a chinese, um, EV maker. They are also one of the largest EV makers in the world. And they currently rival Tesla as perhaps the largest EV producers in the world. I think last year they sold over 3 million units in China or across the world. So that's huge. So how could they tap into this? Their battery capabilities are huge. They have probably some of the best batteries in the world right now or in that space. And on Ampersand's end, they've been working on making sure that their batteries as well are very, very good because it's kind of one of their selling points. So the drivers currently report that, one, they are spending less money as a result of using EV's, I think about 41 or 45%. So that's translating to more income for them that they can take home because before now they had to spend a lot of money on fuel or petrol and they also had to spend money on maintenance, which they are not exactly doing with the EV's. So that's significant earnings for, for the drivers and then cost reduction as well for them. So, yeah, they are also able to like, go a longer distance as well, using the EV's. Now combine that with Byd's. What do you call it now? BYD's battery capabilities, I think they can to some extent improve the, like the battery life of the battery life of the batteries that. Yeah, of what they currently have. Now if they can increase the battery life, that is also more cost saving and sort of positions them in, puts them in a very good position in that market. Then speaking of leveraging it for growth, the other side would be that, like I mentioned, I don't think 3000 is a huge number. In the bigger. In the, in the bigger picture, I don't think it's a huge number. But BYD has. They've made an entrance in both Kenya and Rwanda. And initially it was for vehicles that we are familiar with, sedans, suv's and likes. That's what they were focused on. But now with Ampersand, they could partner to getting two bikes, which could be huge for them. The manufacturing capabilities of ampersand, sorry, could be of BYD. The manufacturing capabilities of BYD could be significantly enhanced. Yes. BYD has focused on vehicles so far. Right now, motorbikes and motorcycles could now be a part. Part of their Africa strategy at the very least. So I think on that front, it could help. Could we see a monitoring investment from BYD into Ampersand? Perhaps Uber was able to make an investment into move just this year, which could significantly improve moves capability. So I think just building on this partnership, depending on how well it goes, they could invest. However, should also point out that BYD already has a partnership with Basigo, where Basigu. Basigo is another EV maker that. Yeah, another EV maker in the same east african market. So they could. I don't know what the details of the partnership maybe stops them from doing, but that's something to bear in mind. So, yeah, I think that combination could help. What do you call it? It could help ampersand to gain a foothold in the african market. On the other hand, I also think it could also help BYD gaining footage. I have some reservations on, like, possible competition. I don't know if you want to talk about that. [00:32:35] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [00:32:36] Speaker C: So I just want to clarify. I think Basigo isn't exactly an EV maker. It actually leaves EV's for EV buses for companies that are into the transportation business. So they actually use BYD buses. So that's what basic actually does. So in terms of competition, I think for now, the focus for BYD in Africa, at least since they tried entered Africa, I think the focus for them has not really been bringing in their own vehicles, or I think it has been more of partnering. For example, what they have with basic go, for example, is basically using their own vehicles. So they might not really come in from the angle of what Ampersand is doing, where they now become like a competitor to ampersand, like, creating their own bikes and start selling their own bikes. [00:33:47] Speaker D: But I'm not saying they already have the manufacturing capabilities, like they've been doing it for a while. Ampersand, on the other hand, yes, they've also been doing it for a couple of years. But imagine a partnership where Ampersand is like, yes, we have the local knowledge. You understand how Africa works, and ubyd, you come and they're providing us with greater technical ability. So, yes, I think that's. [00:34:16] Speaker C: Yeah, that makes sense. [00:34:17] Speaker A: So, yeah, I realized that. Or I noticed that most of the electric vehicle adoption is going on in Africa is focused, or is. Is focused in East Africa and South Africa. I don't know what's going on with West Africa. So, but we can go ahead to generalize that this is increasing electric vehicle adoption in the whole of Africa. But I think we should just look at it holistically before we go, how this kind of partnership and other ones that we should anticipate can have impact generally, like, across both mainstream in Africa instead of the focus on East Africa and South Africa. Or does West Africa have some problems that is pushing ive adoption in a way that does not exist in East Africa and South Africa? [00:35:09] Speaker D: Yes. So the reason you are seeing Rwanda and Kenya. So when you say East Africa is really Rwanda and Kenya, and for good reason. [00:35:16] Speaker A: Yeah. But they are looking at Tanzania, too. [00:35:18] Speaker D: Yeah. I mean, if you have a base in Kenya and Rwanda, you can enter into all those markets. But just to answer your question, the reason is simple government policies. Okay. Kenya has dropped import duties on evs, which makes them easier for you as a manufacturer or as an importer. Rwanda has had a policy that is geared at increasing investment in that space. [00:35:43] Speaker A: As well, and they are well into those. [00:35:47] Speaker D: That makes it a no brainer for anybody who wants to set up in Africa to just go over there. But how can this drive EV, what do you call it? EV adoption? So here's the thing, right? I don't know. We are especially tech people. Like, there's this obsession with leapfrogging. And I don't know if you really want to do leapfrogging in this. In this case. Because I see two major challenges if you want to build EV capabilities in Africa. One is, and I'm not saying you not do yourself. Someone doesn't say, I am saying you shouldn't build EV's in Africa. But there are two major challenges. One is cost. Second is infrastructure cost. Ampersand's bikes are selling for about $1,600. A little over that, which is huge. Use your nigerian currency as it means that right now you're going to be spending roughly 2.5 million naira to get an electric bike. I do not know that anybody is going to pick it up easily. Like, anyone who uses it for a commercial purpose will pick it up easily. Just to give you a little context, if you're non nigerian at $1,600, that is nearly 30 times. Hope my math is correct, because what do you call it now? Our minimum wage is 30,000 naira. So that's nearly 30 times our current minimum wage. If you guys. You guys can do the calculation, but, yeah, that is like, nearly 30 times our minimum wage, if not more than that. So the average bike rider is most likely not going to embrace it. However, Ampersand is one of the things that has helped them in Kenya is using a financing partner, which we have seen a few companies do. But even at that high price, would remain a barrier for expansion, which is what I think informs the slow growth. I mean, in my own view, the slow growth that we have seen. So that cost barrier is huge, which is also why they are doing motorbikes as opposed to doing cars, which every other person in the world is doing. So how do you eliminate that cost barrier? It's a technological problem, but also, or even more importantly, a financial or economic problem. I do not see EV companies solving that problem. Do I want to take out a loan? In fact, we do not even have the credit infrastructure for that. So. And if a bike is selling for 1800, I'm going to assume that if you are very, very. You probably may be able to produce a. Buy a. Produce a lower end sedan for Africa for maybe $25,000, which is still a huge amount of money for even the richest african countries. So I don't know how you want to eliminate that cost barrier. The second is infrastructure. Large parts of Africa are still in darkness, which means, and I mean literal darkness, which means that the electricity needed to power these vehicles is lacking. Right. So. [00:39:10] Speaker A: But what is it called? Sorry to interrupt you. Ampersand has something with battery swap. [00:39:16] Speaker D: Swap? Yes, they have battery swap, I think. Yes, it is. I think I discovered one us company that does something similar. They grew really fast, but even at that they need serious investment. So what's helped them so far is a partnership with Total. I think total also an investor. So that's something that has helped them. Can you reduce significantly that infrastructure barrier? I do not think so. This is like an investment you make and hope that in 20 years Africa gets exactly right. It's not an investment you make and hope that in ten years anything happens. Because look at it, that you have 3000 bikes currently that you've sold. I don't know how much every other person has sold. Probably data that we should even look for. I don't know how much every other person has sold. How do you go from 3000 to 20? 20 million. I'm sorry for being pessimistic, but I don't see happening. [00:40:15] Speaker C: 20 million? [00:40:16] Speaker D: Yeah, 20 million. Let's just say you focus on motorbikes alone. How do you go from electrifying? Yeah, that's. That's about the number that I use for commercial purposes. So how do you go from that? From 3000, for example, or okay, for, even for an ampersand, like, how do you go from 3000 in sales to perhaps a million in sales over the next one? Over the next 20 years? Can you do that? I don't know. You see, it's a question that we probably find out in 20 years. [00:40:46] Speaker A: In 20 years. So we'll be. But yeah, we are holding out hope for electric vehicle adoption. And I love that the interest is growing. And the more we manufacture on the continent, the more we are able to reduce the cost of getting it to the end users and also be able to encourage adoption. And that's it for us today on the tech Point Africa podcast. I'm sure you've enjoyed the conversation and you've learned one or two things from what our guest senator has shared and what we have also shared in the studio today. We'd like to receive your feedback, and if you have any questions, we will be. It will be great to have your questions. You can drop a comment for us on any of our social media platforms, or you can send us an email at Podcastechpoint Dot Africa podcast at Techpoint Dot Africa. You can also drop a comment for us on YouTube, on our YouTube page, or anywhere else you see tech point. Or if you see Bolus, Ngozuma, Oluwani, Femi. Anyway, you can ask us those questions. Thank you for joining us once again. It's always lovely having you. Shingozumi and Bulu. Please, can you say your vice? [00:42:10] Speaker C: Bye bye. [00:42:11] Speaker D: Bye bye. [00:42:14] Speaker A: Catch you in the next one.

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Watch Peace Itimi's interview with Ebun Okubanjo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkepb-uTjqw Read all articles and reports referenced in today's episode - https://linktr.ee/techpointafrica Email us your feedback...