NIMC data breach: Why you should be scared

Episode 230 June 27, 2024 00:42:03
NIMC data breach: Why you should be scared
Techpoint Africa Podcast
NIMC data breach: Why you should be scared

Jun 27 2024 | 00:42:03

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Hosted By

Chimgozirim Nwokoma Oluwanifemi Kolawole Bolu Abiodun

Show Notes

Today on the Techpoint Africa Podcast, our hosts are joined by Samuel Ngwu, Privacy Lawyer to discuss:
  • Another data breach in Nigeria
  • New e-hailing prices in South Africa
 
Timestamps
00:00 - Intro
01:09 - Another data breach in Nigeria
28:54 - New e-hailing prices in South Africa
 
Useful links
This episode was produced by Ogheneruemu Oneyibo and Crystal-Agnes Joseph
 
Email us your feedback at podcast@techpoint.africa. Visit www.techpoint.africa/ for more stories.
 
Music - Beach by MBB -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEnQ8dHwDSk
 
Find us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok @TechpointAfrica
View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Tech Points Africa podcast. I am Oluwanifele and with me in the studio today is Bolu Chimgo's room is not here with us in the studio today, but we'll be making an appearance next week, hopefully today. We have a lot of things happened in the Africa, in the african tech space this week, but we just thought to single out two interesting conversations. While one looks like a surprising move, the other is not really surprising. But still, it's worth reacting to. One of the conversations today is coming from Nigeria and the other from South Africa. I think we should just go directly into the stories we have for today. As usual, we're going to have an important guest with us on today's conversation. We'll be contributing to the first story we'd be talking about and that's the story of how Nigerians identity are being sold on the dark web. [00:01:21] Speaker B: Site. [00:01:22] Speaker A: Regular websites like, is that, is that painful? Because, you know, these things are supposed to be very precious, that if you're going to get them, you're supposed to do like this to get them on the dark web. But now you can buy Nigeria's identity. [00:01:37] Speaker B: 400 naira. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Now that's ridiculous. For 800 naira, please let me convert that to cents and you will see how, how diminutive it is. But that is the reality we are facing. Paradigm initiative released a press statement on June 20 stating that several unauthorized platforms are holding and selling nigerian citizens, sensitive personnel and financial data for as low as 100 naira. The platform that was mentioned was any verified, but it has come to light that there are a number of them. And this is not the first time, this is not the second time. Some don't make it to the news. Being in the media. We get some of these tips every other day of data from a government fire status. Although I don't like that word. Data from a government fire status website is found on one web. Maybe an ethical account will just send you a cv's file containing Nigerians data. So this is not new. But the fact that NIMC reacted, that is National Identity Management Commission reacted to this and was like, there was no breach. So how did these people get our data? So with us on today's conversation is a data privacy lawyer, Samuel Ngu, and he will introduce himself properly when he comes on. And we are going to get this conversation going and we're going to focus mainly on not just how this data got to this website, but how you can protect yourself as a Nigerian. It's looking like a lost cause. But something positive can come out of this conversation. So just watch out. Thank you, Samuel, for joining us today. Can you kindly introduce yourself to us? And also we'll just pick it up from there. [00:03:49] Speaker C: Okay. Thank you so much for having me this morning. My name is Samuel Nguyen. I'm a privacy lawyer here in Lagos and I'm happy to be here with you to share my knowledge on the allegation that happened a few days ago concerning NImsi and our personal information. [00:04:11] Speaker A: Thank you for joining us. Let's just go from there. Nimc, Nims, or Nimsi as we call it, is huge. Like you're holding the data of millions of Nigeria. So it is a commission that has been around for a while and we willingly by ourselves, give our data to them because, well, if we do not give our data to NIMSI, we are not going to be able to get a national education number you get. So it is very huge. So looking at the magnitude of data that NIMSI and what are like the best practices that I expected from a commission like this, from a body like this when it comes to securing and protecting Nigerians data. [00:05:03] Speaker C: Okay, thank you very much. It's quite interesting and at the same time unfortunate because I will start by saying that NIMS is a member of the Governing Council of Nigerian Data Protection Commission. It's a member of the governing council. And if that is the case, it is expected that they should know better because we are talking about national database. So as far as Nigeria is concerned, NIN is even far more prioritized than international passports because that is what identifies you as a Nigerian, as a citizen of this country. So they are expected to implement the highest technical measures to ensure that those information are well protected. Because once someone can have access to it, the person knows you better than you even know yourself. You know, somebody can track you track your movement, what you are doing, where you are from, and you can even be discriminated based on that. But I don't even want to go and begin to mention the implications of having access to such high important information. Yes, but they are expected to implement the highest technical and organizational measure to ensure that those information are well protected. And this includes having the best security architecture. Their security architecture should be top notch. They should have the best cyber security expert in this country working with them because they are transacting on a very sensitive information. Let me just put it that way. So. But it seems that. It seems that is not the case. And that is why there has been several allegations day in, day out, every care market, somebody is coming to allege that personal information, the. What's it called? The NIMS database, has been hacked, or that certain entities are having access to the information we have there. And I would go for that to say that it is important for us to know that because of the special position they occupy, these entities, or let me even say so many entities will be interested in having access to the database they have, because with that, you know, as a commercial entity, you can be able to ascertain the behaviors of your customers towards the product you want to market. So that information is very important and it can actually be sold at an exorcitant price. So what I'm saying, or the point I'm trying to make, is that you cannot rule out the role of an insider threat to what is happening. Yes. [00:07:57] Speaker A: So the possibility. There are different possibilities that could have come up here. According to Paradigm Initiative, they can't specific or categorically say these websites are illegal, except NiMcc. So it's possible. One of the possibilities that maybe Nimsi sold the data to them. Possibility nobody should confirm. Yes. And then it's possible that there was a breach. And the one you mentioned, that there is an insider at work in this case. Yes. But if you remember, if you recall, I think, 2019 or 2020, that the time where Nipsey launched their id app, and if we remember, then there were a lot of weird things that were happening. One of it was people putting their Nin on the NIMSi app and is bringing out another person's identity. So people were having the virtual, or. Yes, virtual cards, nin card of people that are not themselves, if you remember very well, then I wrote a few stories on it about how to use that app to get your n nine, because then it was a lot of struggle. And then they said, oh, the app was buggy to start with. And they said, okay, they are revamping it. Then they revised it. So this is not new with NiMc, given how much responsibility is placed on them. Right. I feel that maybe it has been going on for so long and not many questions are asked. Maybe that is why things like this keep recurring. And given that, how many days later, seven days after, there is still no statement from NImSI about this possible breach. So before we go to, I think Bolu has a question to ask. But before we go there, you mentioned that Nipsey should have, like, the most secured cybersecurity protection it can get. But how do you think Nipsey has fed over the years? Being the protector of Nigeria's data? Or is it protect or what do they call them? Custodian of nigerian data. Do you think they feared much over the years? We are looking at reputation here. [00:10:44] Speaker B: Can I also add that considering, considering everything we've seen, like, how have they feared, considering everything that has happened, I think the one you mentioned from 2020 and the one happening now, how would you rate them? Obviously, you don't know what's going on there, but these things have happened. It tells us about the level of security that they have. So how do you, how will you rate how well they've been the custodians of our data? [00:11:09] Speaker C: Okay. I would say they have done woefully past. [00:11:17] Speaker B: I expected that you would say that. I didn't know you're going to be point blank. [00:11:22] Speaker C: They have failed woefully because it goes to. Points to show that they do not even understand the position they are occupying, because if they do, and it goes to also point out the sort of culture we have in this country, people feel so unserious about what they are doing because they feel nobody will hold them accountable. Just as what is happening now in a civilized nation, in EU hells, would have started rolling by now, I can tell you for sure. Health would have started ruling by now. But it's more like a week after that allegation was made and I heard the paradigm initiative very well. They said they bought the minister of Communication and Digital Economies NIN sleep and that of the nigerian data protection commission. That is the commissioners NIM slip. [00:12:16] Speaker A: Can you imagine? Up till now, nobody's talking. [00:12:20] Speaker C: No official statement has been released from the NIMS acknowledging that there was a data breach. They released a statement debugging it, but none was released to acknowledge it. And when you look at the provision of Nigerian Data Protection Commission, it says when you suffer a data breach, the breach that will lead to a high risk. You are expected to report to the Nigerian Data Protection Commission and also notify the data subjects. So in this case, we are the data subjects. Citizens of this country are data subjects. Those things are personal information. But no one has cared to notify us. Seven days or more after it has happened and nothing has been done. Even the Nigerian Data Protection Commission hasn't even issued a statement. Yesterday, the minister of Communication and Digital Economy tweeted on, on his Twitter account that he has reached out to his colleague, the minister of interior, you know, and they are working on how to resolve this. That is also an indictment that there was a breach. [00:13:36] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:13:38] Speaker C: So my own perspective. An indictment? [00:13:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:42] Speaker C: Okay, I'm listening. [00:13:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that you mentioned the National Data Protection Regulation. I don't know if the NIMC has any liability in this case. Can Nigerians sue the commission for this oversight? [00:13:58] Speaker B: Because they're supposed to. There's something they were supposed to do that they didn't. [00:14:01] Speaker A: To protect our data. Yeah. [00:14:02] Speaker B: They're supposed to even inform us if it's like you said, if it happens. Like they're supposed to inform us and they're supposed to report to the data protection Agency. Yeah. Commission. [00:14:14] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:14:15] Speaker B: And they didn't do that. So. [00:14:16] Speaker C: Anyone? Yeah, exactly. I expect the paradigm initiative, because it seems that only one that have that evidence right now, since they bought the slip from the third party, to commence an action, and I'm sure they're going to do that to commence an action against the names and also the Nigerian Data Protection Commission. So if at the end of the day, the Nigerian Data Protection Commission does not find names or even release the statement saying, oh, we've conducted an investigation and this is the result of the investigation, and therefore we are proceeding against this. Of course, people can commence an action against them fulfilling in their duty, you know, so. But I, of course, I'm not even expecting anything from the Nigerian Data Protection Commission, just as I mentioned, is a member of the government council. So, uh, you cannot be a judge in your own case. So it's, uh. Now we. We. Let me just put it that way. [00:15:13] Speaker A: You know, that. That's. That's sad. That's sad. The custodian is not custodian. [00:15:20] Speaker B: Yeah. But. But then I. I just want to point something else. Another funny thing is, um. So I want to play the devil's advocate a bit. You know, we've pounced on NIMC very well this morning. But I also want to, because you mentioned something about, you know, we as Nigerians, you know, things that we do. But I think also as people. Right. I think there's also a possibility, because there was. There was a time I was using, a while ago, a long time ago, I was using this particular website, and I wanted to. I think I wanted to know my nin. I didn't know it, right. I'd registered. I had a number, but I could not remember it. So I went to this site. I entered. What did I. Oh, no, no. I think I wanted to confirm the details of my, um, nin. I didn't remember the details that I submitted to nin to get that number. [00:16:15] Speaker A: Okay. [00:16:16] Speaker B: Right. So what I just did was I went to that website. Um, I gave them their number. And after giving them their number, they gave me all my details. Right. So I could see. Okay, so that means if I could able to. If I'm able to, I get someone's nin number and I don't know who the Una is. I could just put that number on that website and they will tell me everything. But for me, it didn't seem weird at that time. Right. I think maybe I just finished coding still. I mean, yeah, something like it didn't seem. Because I just googled it. I just went to, how do I. And it was one of the first suggestions that came up. Yes. And I tried it, not knowing that. [00:16:58] Speaker A: So I tried to say, could this have been, like, from citizens and not from the service? [00:17:05] Speaker B: Is it possible that there are things we do as citizens that could, you know, that could have caused this? Right. If I cry, very unlikely. But is there. Is there any way we can also hold us as citizens accountable as far. [00:17:25] Speaker C: As this particular scenario is concerned? [00:17:27] Speaker B: Okay. [00:17:28] Speaker C: The fault is not from the citizens. [00:17:29] Speaker B: They say your nim slip, Nimc, you. [00:17:33] Speaker C: Don'T even have access to. You are not. You are not the creator. You are not the maker of that nim slip. So there is no way would have been your fault. So somebody is there doing it. You only have access to it. Know to get it. When you've met. Probably the requirement or after submitting and it comes out at the appropriate date, you go and obtain your nin. [00:17:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:55] Speaker C: Or the payment or the Nim slip. So there is no way it would have been the fault of the citizen. Yes, I can agree. Maybe if the scenario or the circumstances were different, I would say, okay, probably somebody has gone to your social media account to create your date of birth, your phone number. Yeah, the rest of them. But nin, sleep, nobody's going to get it anywhere apart from the names. You're not going to get it anywhere apart from the names. So that data was sold? Was sold. [00:18:30] Speaker B: That's very. And, yeah. Oh, sorry. Okay. Yeah. I was going to say, the scariest part is knowing that, like, thinking about it, I don't really think there is really any way we can protect ourselves from this, because like you said, it's an MC that is holding, is there, the custodians of it. If the custodians can occupy. There's really nothing I can do as a citizen, so. [00:18:57] Speaker A: Is there. [00:18:58] Speaker B: I don't. Well, is there somewhere. [00:19:02] Speaker C: Anyways, just as I pointed out, though, normal thing would have been for them to release a statement telling us that. Okay, so their database was attacked or hacked or they. That they have suffered data breach. And these are the information that were assessed. Right. Maybe your name, blah, blah, blah. And that citizens are expected to be proactive, to be aware, you know, so that you are not caught, you know, on the web. Maybe through all this social engineering. I mean, you have to be conscious of fishing because these are the likely things that will come out from it. So, you know, you need to be proactive and then be aware that, okay, this thing has happened and there is a possibility of your information or your email being fished. Right? So. But right now, we don't even know. We cannot categorically say that this informed there was a breach because we don't have official statement to that effect. Everything is based on allegation. [00:20:06] Speaker B: Okay, so. [00:20:08] Speaker C: And citizens haven't been informed. So we don't even know the measures we will take to protect ourselves. Which makes this situation very, very bad. [00:20:16] Speaker A: Yes, it's bad. So you've touched on something I wanted to, like, ask lastly on discomfort conversation. And that is the fact that there is only so much we care about our data in this part of the world. Like, when we hear data breach, you just be like, it's not as if. [00:20:37] Speaker B: My money has been stolen. But we don't know. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Yes, we don't know the extent to which breaches like these, possible breaches like this, what effect or impact it can have on us. So you've mentioned social engineering, which might still sound like big English for some people. So I need you to paint vivid pictures in the minds of anybody listening to this. The possible implication of a data breach, of a possible data breach of this scale on citizens. Maybe we take it serious, then. [00:21:12] Speaker C: So one example. Somebody can just clone your email, right, and use it to request for money from close friends. [00:21:23] Speaker A: What if my friends are broke? [00:21:35] Speaker C: You would have seen instances where someone saw a close associates WhatsApp account was hacked, right? And somebody was using it to ask, okay, I'm broke right now, or please could you send me two k? I will send it back to you in the evening, or something like that. I've also had an experience as an NYC associate where somebody cloned my principal's email and sent me an email asking me to send 50k that he's in a urgent meeting. I should send fifty k to a particular client. He's in an urgent meeting, and once he comes, he can't talk. And once he comes out, right, he's going to refund me. So anyway, at first I was surprised as to why my principal would have to ask me to send 50k, considering the fact that I'm still a trainer associate. I mean, there were senior associates in that firm, right? So. But there was something that happened that first of all, the email came in asking me, Sam, are you busy right now? So. And then I was, I was preparing a minute. So there were coincidence. After that email came in, I got a call from my principal asking me if I was busy. He wants to send the work to me. Do you get. So because of the coincidence, I couldn't even decipher that somebody was actually phishing my phishing my email or someone has fished my email and trying to, you know, make use it to commit a fraud. So at the end of the day, of course, I succeeded in transferring that money to the person. And minutes after that, the principal started. Somebody tweeted on our group WhatsApp page that he got this message. Other people started complaining that they also got this message. And people were just made to be aware. That is not the principal. So these are things that somebody can do with the information when someone gets hold of your information. Another thing is identity theft, right, which is also part of what I said. Yeah, but on a, on a, on a higher scale, right? Somebody can become you or, you know, use you to commit crap. Was called fraud. You guys could even be a terrorist activity. You get, and there is no way you can substance. You can even prove it. Somebody can use your identity to borrow money from bank because they have that. They have your BVN, they have your phone number, you have your own, they have everything about you. So how are you going to prove that you are not the one? It's already happening self. Somebody will use your phone number and go and borrow money from all these moneylenders and they will keep calling you, you know, threatening you everywhere. It's happening. So. And this, this can only be possible because someone already has access to your information. You are not even aware. I'm aware that when you lose your important ids, like this notion, you're expected to report to the police. And if I'm correct, the reason why you have to notify the police so that they will be aware because there may be possibility of somebody using that information to commit fraud on your behalf. You know, so. But right now this information are outside that there with third parties that we don't even know. They listed some websites. These are just the ones that accepted. We don't know that ones. They haven't accepted, you know, actually in custody or have unauthorized access to this information. And somebody can use it and do a whole lot of things out there. So these are some of the dangers of. [00:25:13] Speaker A: Thank you very much, Sam, for taking time to explain that. And we also do understand how many or how long our nin has gone different. We've used it to open bank statements. We've used. Used it to security for wallets, different things. And that's getting into the wrong ant can be disastrous. We just. We are hoping that wait seven days. Should I still. We are still hoping that Nimsee will say something about this, at least for the sake of Nigerians that are bothered about their data or their national identity. And intel point came up, like, did their research and came up with a data insight showing that data breaches like this is not strange to african government. In fact, on the list, Nigeria is just fought on the list of african countries with the highest is data, personal data breaches on the continent. South Sudan has like 89.4 million personal data breaches between 2004 and the first quarter of 2024. Nigeria, that is on default position, has 19.3 million personal data breaches within that particular period. Down on the list, like 10th on the position is Democratic Republic of Congo with 3.5 million personal data breaches. And this goes to show that african government have to really take responsibility for this. The data I mentioned is from intel point, and you can find that data and even more on Intelpoint co. [00:27:22] Speaker C: If you. [00:27:23] Speaker A: If you want to find out more about anything. Insights informed by data, you can find it on Enterpoint co. But that goes to speak to what is expected of african government, not just Nigeria. This news might. We might not forget about it in a few days, but what happens to what is already out there? There? What happens with these people that does not even care enough to put a lot of value on the information? Like, maybe if you are selling my data for a million naira, maybe I will feel good a bit. But you're selling my data. I'm just saying, like, it seems like maybe it's a way to, um, uh, what's the word? Like you're trying to shame Nimc that. [00:28:12] Speaker B: See, see, I mean, especially how easy it was to get. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Exactly. Like, how easy it was to get if you had to bid for it on. On dark web, millions of dollars, you will not be. Well, I think I'm making too much possible, but this is painful for me as a citizen, and I'm hoping that NIMC would do better. Thank you very much, Samuel, for joining us today on this conversation. You've provided a lot of insight, and I'm sure audience and listeners have become more enlightened on their personal data, even though they can't protect themselves. Thank you very much, Samuel, for joining us. [00:28:52] Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate. [00:28:54] Speaker A: Okay, now we are going to the next news and the last one, the last story we'll be discussing today on the podcast. And it's from South Africa, where a newly passed National Transport act amendment bill. Amendment bill, rather, has transferred some powers to the minister of transport to set the prices that ride ailing platforms on demand. Ride ailing platforms can demand from their customers, including the global ones, both Uber. Right? It's. It's kind of weird. Weird because we understand how. How they work, how regulated, how unregulated that space is as. It's where you get, how most of these decisions are left in the hands of the companies that are involved with it. You get, um, even the ones that are stayed state owned are still regulated by that platforms. Right. And in the african market. This is strange. I'm just wondering that it's not. It's the fact that the responsibility was passed to the minister of transport to decide, not a committee, not a body to the minister of transport to decide. And it's. It's. It's kind of weird. Or is it? Is it not? Bulu. [00:30:32] Speaker B: It is. It is actually very weird because, you know, the first thing I thought when I saw this rail was so. So that means that when I take a boat ride, see, I'm in South Africa. Imagine. So when I take a boat ride in South Africa, um, the price, I will not see the price. Or I wait for the government to set, or the government takes over the mechanism for certain prices possible. [00:31:01] Speaker A: Like, there will not be, like, uniform prices across on demand ride daily platforms, not just Uber and boat. There might be one. There might be state owned ones. There might be privately owned ones. It's just like a centralized cap, like the way. The way there is a cap and flow for communication, telecommunication companies. So the minister can set like a cup and a floor for maybe for certain kilometers. This is how much you can charge. This is how much you cannot go beyond. So I think this is more of, like, regulations, but the focus is on the pricing. But there are other things, like, you want to take, like safety, of safety, which is questionable when it comes to the african setting. Right. When you say, because you would need my data, you would need me to know where I am, where I'm coming from. Right. And I don't think we are comfortable having our government have those kind of information. So this particular one I need to understand the why. Yes. The reasoning I need to show me their thought process. [00:32:23] Speaker B: So the simple thing is, the reason why they are doing this is especially for the pricing part, which I think is the most interesting part. Why they want to take charge of it is because there's always this pricing issue that drivers usually have with those platforms. So the government is like, okay, let's take over. Right. And solve the problem. Right. And I mean, from that story we saw that, I think one of the, one of the people who like, kind of like a spokesperson for, like, eln drivers generally, you know, said that the drivers were like, happy about it. They liked it, which was interesting. But the spokesperson from Boat actually said it will still be the same problem. Because the problem with pricing. Right. And we've experienced this in Nigeria, too. [00:33:18] Speaker A: It's affected by socioeconomic factors. [00:33:20] Speaker B: Yes. The problem with pricing, when it comes to ride healiness, it's not that simple. Drivers want more money, but riders want to pay less. And I've seen it, like, personally, I've seen it happen. [00:33:33] Speaker A: So there are three parties involved here. The platform, platform driver, the rider. [00:33:38] Speaker B: Yeah. So let's even remove the platform now. Let's leave. No, no, important. It's also important to them. Yes. Because they also need to make money. But the riders and the driver, I mean, and I don't know why. I mean, I understand that if I'm, I was a rider, I would care about my own amounts I'm making. But I also think about it that if prices are too high, I will not get riders, which at the end of the day will still affect my earnings. And it's something a lot of these ride a ling companies have always hammered on. And this is why the boat spokesperson said that it's still going to come back to the same problems. Right. You will still end up having to, because, yes, you want, you want to increase, you want to increase price. Yes, fuel prices have gone up. Things have gone up. Yes, you want to increase price. But because of all these things, people that want to pay for these things also think, because it has happened to me many times, I want to go somewhere, and I open the first app, I see this number, and that's even the one that I like now. Now I don't have preference. I don't even look at brand again. [00:34:49] Speaker A: As it is now. [00:34:51] Speaker B: I will check everybody and I'll go with the one with the list. [00:34:54] Speaker A: How many apps do you have? [00:34:55] Speaker B: Okay. I said that was an example. I only have two, but I'll check those two. [00:35:01] Speaker A: I think five people have it. [00:35:02] Speaker B: People have, some people. I know people have everything. I think the reason why I have those two is because if you say company. No, no, no, because of company payments and all that. But I know people have everything. Yes. There's an example right in. [00:35:19] Speaker A: I know, scared. They carry you away. [00:35:21] Speaker B: People don't really think so. That is one. That is the why. Right. Why they want to get involved. But then I still really do not see. Right. Because when you think about it and think about everything I've said about pricing, you really do not see how the government wants to solve this problem. Because it is a matter of if it is too expensive, it seems like driver will make money, but really get rights. [00:35:48] Speaker A: Yes. And even if it is, I went that downfall that increases the commission that will. [00:35:54] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:35:55] Speaker A: You'll be taken from them. They are not getting more rights. You're just there, you know. So I think the Ealing association, they believe that these, all these struggles they've been having all these years, maybe they should just try another solution, maybe to be on their side. Because you know how a ling drivers and these platforms have been at loggerhead in different african countries, even outside Africa, you get about them. If it's not pricing, it will be safety. It will be. We don't want to be contracts, staff. We want to be normal employees. We want, we want data issues. Yes. It's always one thing or the other. So they are thinking instead of them just clamoring, clamoring every time. Now that the government wants to interfere, let's see how it goes. It is not for us to decide anyway. Since it seems they've embraced it. They've embraced it. So maybe the next thing is to just get Uber and boat, at least the ones that are not local platforms on board to fit into or to fall into this amendment and see where it goes from there. But I just feel that there are a lot of things involved in this. This singular move might not. [00:37:20] Speaker B: And the move the needle is not. It's not yet, you know, very clear how. It's not very clear how those things will pan out. But I think some speculations we can make is because with that new build, they said they'll start getting, they will have to get some other licenses, like regular licenses, that cab drivers are not yelling per se. They will have to now get them. So it probably seems like they want to open the market. Exactly. And they want to exert some level of control, which I think might not really be good for the Ealing market. It's too early to say. We have to see how it pans out. But I think might not be really good for the Ealing markets because like I said, there are different parties involved and if all those parties are not happy, it's going to be unsustainable. [00:38:14] Speaker A: Yeah, unsustainable, yes, because the platforms have to be happy, drivers have to be happy, riders have to be happy, governments have to be happy. A lot of people have to be happy in this case. So we're looking forward to how this is going to play out in South Africa and probably if it plays out well, it might be a move for other african countries to probably put a lead to the every market day conversations that come up between Ealing platforms and their drivers. We will look out for it and see how that plays out. Thank you very much for joining us once again on today's episode of the Tech Points Africa podcast. We are always excited to come here and talk about different things in the african tech space. Before we leave, we try we would like to make a mention of a sad news to the Nigeria tech ecosystem of a news that we heard early this morning about the passing of Nick Imudia, who is the former CEO of Konga. Want to have 1 minute silence for him? May soul rest in perfect peace. Yeah. This is a good time to remind us all to check other news on our platform on the Techpoint Africa website, Techpoint Africa. There are a lot of things that happened this week, a lot of stories on the Tech Point Africa website that we couldn't talk about on this podcast. You can also check out our newsletters. Techpoint Digest is a week daily newsletter that gets into your inbox as early as 05:00 a.m. west african time and keeps you in touch of whatever happened in tech african space in the previous day. You can subscribe to that. We'll drop you a link in the description note and you can also find it on the Techmate Africa website. Also, there is the modern workplace newsletter and also, and also equity Merchants newsletter. Okay, there's another newsletter that is coming. Let me not review that yet. I almost sleep there. Yes. So we have three newsletters that are running now. Checkpoint Digest, modern workplace newsletter and equity merchant. Don't forget to send us your feedback. Send us your reactions. You can. You can send a review to us if you're listening to this on Spotify, we like to get your review. You can also send us an email on podcast at Techpoint Africa or tag us on any of our social media platform, Techpoint Africa on Facebook, on Instagram, on tweet Twitter on X. Who calls it X? [00:41:44] Speaker B: Me. [00:41:45] Speaker A: Okay. On eggs, please. We would like to hear from you. Thank you once again for joining us. And from Bolu, we are saying bye.

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